Sorry to hear that.

Did you have a contract with them?

Was the money paid by cash, cheque or card? Maybe contact the bank/ card company to see if they can help.

We run a very successful website rental service - 99 Website Rental - whereby you pay monthly so there is no big investment.

Have a look and see if we can help.
------------------------
Point and Stare

Specialising in design and development, CMS and eCommerce

Can't afford a website? You can with 99 Website rental

DigiLondon | Solar Frenzy | Currently Looking For Work | Z6

Hi

No contract just initial emails, and the money was paid by paypal. I have now put a compliant into paypal to iform them that www.vengavenga.com are using their service to con customers with no contact.

Will be interesting to see what ahppens.

Thanks for your interest, and yes I will have alook at your site, thanks.

Kind regards

Phil

Sorry to hear about your problems with vengavenga. My sister has had similar problems and like you had communication with 'Ali' for over a week but as soon as she paid through PayPal there was no communication at all. All communication ceased a few weeks ago i.e. early May 2008.

I doubt that vengavenga are scammers as there are no other adverse comments or publicity on the web about them. And they have been around for a number of years with numerous posts by ali on forums and discussion boards.

My guess is that he may have had an accident but there is no means of contact except email or msn. The PayPal payment will be automated on his website so he may not even be aware of these payments. You may want to try www.cosmeticsfairy.co.uk as vengavenga designed their website and is also hosted on the same 208.76.83.177 TCP/IP.

Checkout http://www.websiteoutlook.com/www.vengavenga.com to verify the hosting. Vengavenga is based in Malaga). Cosmeticsfairy are also based in spain and considering the other links between them may know how to get in direct contact with 'ali'.

Hope this helps.

At the risk of sounding unsympathetic this only serves to illustrate the folly of trying to get a job done on the cheap that really needs to be done by legitimate professionals....

For a start there are no real contact details for the firm. You dealt with “Ali”? Ali who? Ali Baba? Wayne (with some ingenuity) has managed to establish that they’re based in Malaga. But where in Malaga? You don’t know the guy’s name, phone number or location...

THAT ALONE should have sounded warning bells. NEVER do business with someone who’s not upfront about who and what they are....

Any UK business (sole trader or otherwise) is required to show an address somewhere on their site. And with a UK based business you at least have some protection through the likes of Trading Standards, Revenue and Customs etc... And of course in the case of fraud you have the UK police and court systems to call upon for help....

Secondly; what they’re showing isn’t web design. It’s all template based and pretty generic...

What’s more, it’s clear they either don’t know about or care about the law of the land... The Betty Boop site features graphics that I’d lay odds aren’t cleared for copyright. Neither the Fender site nor the Performance Stars sites have business addresses accessible and in the case of the (painfully slow) Fender site there is no proper acknowledgement of the trademark which Fender are VERY insistent on...

NO real professional (i.e. qualified) web designer would put a site out like that....

Many of the links on their testimonial pages just take you to a generic holding page.... These people simply AREN’T credible.

A legitimate designer will build your site from the ground up. They’ll create and maintain a full audit trail for your (and their) protection in respect of every single piece of intellectual property. They’ll work to keep you on the right side of the law. What’s more they’ll be accountable for what they produce... AND you’ll be able to pick up a phone or knock on a door to talk to them...
I wish you well with PayPal... If you paid with a credit card you could try taking it up with the card provider first though.
------------------------

Matt Quinn.

www.tfgtv.com

Corporate Communication for SMALL Businesses!

Hello chaps, I too have been experiencing major anxiety with this company, and now it seems that it was justified; here is the home page at vengavenga.com as of this evening:

"Vengavenga - Important Notice

It is with deep regret that we announce the closure of vengavenga.com

Business has been in decline over recent months to the point where we can no longer manage to continue.
We've had to leave Spain and return to the UK in order to try and feed the family.

If you have a site hosted by ourselves, we will try and keep it online for as long as possible, however we can't guarantee that we will be able to maintain the server after 5th June 2008. With that in mind, you should make arrangements to hire another design team to move the site for you to another server as soon as possible.

The details they'll ask you for are the ftp details which will be ftp.yourdomain.com with the same username and password as you use for your admin area.
They will also need access to your database - they can access that via www.yourdomain.com/cpanel again using the same username and password. Your store system is based on osCommerce.

Anyone who has made a payment for work that has not been done, should contact their credit card company and start a "chargeback" claim.

We're not proud of the way vengavenga has ended - we always prided ourselves on offering the very best service at the lowest possible prices, however in recent months we have been unable to do this. Apologies for the inevitable inconvenience this is going to cause.

Ali & Lou
vengavenga.com"

So there you go.

My partner's site (hosted by vengavenga) was down for a week with a DB error; I have just managed to restore from backup via phpMyAdmin and now I think I need to get it shifted sharpish!

Any recommendations on decent hosts that I can transfer my modified osCommerce site onto? We are not a high traffic site.

Matt is correct and I have learned my lesson. Time to become an osC guru until we can assess our options.

James

I have a site with vengavenga also. Its working at the mo and i'm getting orders daily but looks like i need to move it quick.

Where am I supposed to move it and who will help with the admin and modifications? Any recomendations anyone?

I could possibly do with a company who will recreate a similar site based on the current one that will allow us to expand slightly. Also could do with some marketing assistance without the high marketting prices.

Thanks

>>>>>Their website says they have closed the business and moved to spain.<<<<

No, actually it says they've moved FROM Spain back to the UK.....

But the main point is NO legitimate business hides it's ownership details OR location. And WHOEVER people are moving their website to they should make absolutely sue they're dealing with a legitimate UK company. what's more they should also ensure that the web designers they're employing really ARE legitimate qualified professionals; and not just some bunch of jokers with a copy of Dreamweaver!

Bear in mind that people have found themselves in VERY deep water when semi-skilled charlatan web designers have failed to clear (or been ignorant of the fact they have to clear) copyright. And that extends no only pictures sound and other media on the site but the very structure of the site itself.

From what I've seen of VengaVenga's 'work' it's no wonder they've gone belly up!

Web design is a skilled job; at least at the sort of level needed in business. You won't get a professional job done for cowboy money!
------------------------

Matt Quinn.

www.tfgtv.com

Corporate Communication for SMALL Businesses!

Essentially it all comes down to having a proper contract. We never take on any work without first meeting with the client, discussing their requirements then drawing up a relevant contract.
Within the contract are areas that cover both parties from any kind of 'ripping off'.
It's plain business sense.
------------------------
Point and Stare

Specialising in design and development, CMS and eCommerce

Can't afford a website? You can with 99 Website rental

DigiLondon | Solar Frenzy | Currently Looking For Work | Z6

Well, in consideration of the thread topic..... Disappearing semi-competent web designers, and as someone who's regularly asked by MY clients to find a decent web designer I've one or two observations to make......

Firstly.....

Companies Act 2006 and Business Names Act 1985

Every UK company should list on its website:

* its name;

* its company registration number;

* its place of registration; and

* its registered office address.

Sole traders and partnerships who carry on a business in the UK under a business name (very roughly, not the names of the trader/partners) must also make certain website disclosures:

* in the case of a sole trader, the individual’s name;

* in the case of a partnership, the name of each member of the partnership;

* in either case, in relation to each person named, an address in the UK at which service of any document relating in any way to the business will be effective.

I can't find ANY of that on many web design and web agency sites (including ukwebsitequotes.com ) ....And on THAT basis alone I'd be warning people to AVOID doing business with them! For EXACTLY the same reasons as people should have been wary of VengaVenga: i.e. ...people contacting you have really no idea of who they are, where they are and they're not even complying with the basic laws of the land!

As for the 25 agencies who have signed up; frankly I'd love a list! Because if THEY'RE willing to do business with someone who operates on that basis they're either not competent business people or (like VengaVenga) have scant regard for the checks and balances that serve to protect people's best interests. And that's REALLY not good!

P&S Wrote:....

"Essentially it all comes down to having a proper contract. We never take on any work without first meeting with the client, discussing their requirements then drawing up a relevant contract. Within the contract are areas that cover both parties from any kind of 'ripping off'.It's plain business sense."

Quite so! And any legitimate web designer, agency or other creative professional would consider this the very basic of basic sound professional practice.... Indeed (as P&S say) in general terms it's plain business sense!!

I'll be honest and say I have mixed feelings about those who are picking over the bones of VengaVenga. Frankly there are million cowboys out there claiming to be web designers. And to the unwary or uninformed a million traps to fall into. I suppose the business has to go somewhere... and I've less of an issue with legitimate up front professionals trying to provide a lifeline... Though it does appear a little unseemly...

But it seems extraordinary in a thread where the folly of 'going with' unnamed, unknown, untraceable unaccountable operators is highlighted that one should pop up apparently operating in pretty much the same way....

As I suggested in one of my earlier posts; it's absolute stupidity to put your trust, business profile and money in the hands of someone who doesn't even put their name above their own shop doorway! If you need proof try vengavenga.com
------------------------

Matt Quinn.

www.tfgtv.com

Corporate Communication for SMALL Businesses!

I have deleted quite a few posts from this thread which are off topic.
------------------------

Ian

For some reason I thought the vengavenga service was based on Zencart, oh well I was wrong about that one, perhaps I was mistaking it for another company's service.

For those of you vengavenga clients who are now left without an ecommerce supplier and are looking for an alternative ecommerce supplier using osCommerce, please have a look at our hosted managed service at www.awebapart.com

We use our own custom version of osCommerce as the shop part of our websites, so it might be feasible to migrate existing vengavenga sites over to our platform. I doubt it will be a complete migration, certain things will probably have to change, e.g. cosmetics, since you are migrating from one custom version of osCommerce to another custom version, and from one service by one company to a different service by a different company, but if you are interested, a UK-based company, and are happy that things will be different, we'll have a look to see what is feasible.

Another alternative supplier who might be more flexible than us, since they are not only an ecommerce supplier but also a normal host (who might be able to transfer the system as is), is:

www.seiretto.com/web_hosting/ecommerce.php

This situation with vengavenga, as unfortunate as it is, does illustrate the advantage of going with a small ecommerce supplier who is using industry standard systems like osCommerce as part of their ecommerce solution, since it does make it easier to move suppliers. If vengavenga's original ecommerce solution was based on their own proprietary ecommerce system then it would be more difficult.
------------------------
Paul - www.awebapart.com - 'a web apart'
create, update your website today - the online professional site builder

Paul, Can I ask why you are still using OSC when it is so out of date (code wise). Plus I'm not sure if you are aware but the original developers seem to have gone 'off project'.
------------------------
Point and Stare

Specialising in design and development, CMS and eCommerce

Can't afford a website? You can with 99 Website rental

DigiLondon | Solar Frenzy | Currently Looking For Work | Z6

The use of osCommerce for the shopping section of our sitebuilder solution was a strategic decision we made a couple of years ago. Strategic decisions are long term ones, ones you don't change just because of some latest piece of software getting a lot of the news, like the latest kid on the block magento.

We wanted a proven solution which we were confident would work for a large number of different clients with different requirements, and since osCommerce had successfully been implemented and gone live by many different store owners in very different situations, that was a good starting point. We thought about osCommerce derivatives/forks like creLoaded or ZenCart, but we also took the long term view that whilst these derivatives might bring better short term features, long term their importance would decline once the major new version of osCommerce v3 came out (e.g. what is the point of a derivative which adds features not present in v2 osCommerce if those features are now present in v3 osCommerce).

One of our first ecommerce clients was a clothes store, requiring attribute level stock control, e.g. how many red shirts size large do we have, and at the time, and even now, you would be surprised at how many ecommerce solutions couldn't cope with this. We, like our clients, are more driven by important "must have" business requirements, not less important "nice to have" technical requirements like what does the underlying browser code look like.

With our ecommerce solution we are not completely tied to osCommerce. If osCommerce v3 doesn't deliver the goods, then rather than upgrade our custom version of osCommerce to v3, we will either continue to improve it ourselves or make the strategic decision to add/migrate to another system. Strategic decisions whilst long term, should never be set in stone forever, since I've been in the industry long enough to see the death of industry leading software before, e.g. I remember when WordPerfect was the leading word processor, Lotus 123 was the leading spreadsheet, Aston Tate dBase was the leading PC database system, etc.
------------------------
Paul - www.awebapart.com - 'a web apart'
create, update your website today - the online professional site builder

Thanks for the answer. I don't necessarily agree with a few points you have made but that's life.
I do, however, totally agree with not using something just because it's flavour of the month, Magento for example. I have been testing magento for the last year and a half and still would not recommend to use it on a live site.

As for the clothes store, I have just released an online store for an Exclusive Bespoke menswear shop (built around Zen Cart) - so now know everything about attributes!

As for OSCv3 ... I wouldn't hold my breath.

------------------------
Point and Stare

Specialising in design and development, CMS and eCommerce

Can't afford a website? You can with 99 Website rental

DigiLondon | Solar Frenzy | Currently Looking For Work | Z6

next time ask for a surname.............calling FBI we got an AWOL on 'ALI'???

Hi all

Its nice that this is such a well run forum, a lot of ideas and suggestions, more power to its elbow.

I was asked to reply, no problem, not that I have got far.

The money was paid through paypal but on debit card (woops!) I know that was stupid, and its a mistake I regret could cost me the money I paid, we all learn, so my advice is of others on here alwasy pay by Credit Card.

I did put a compliant in to Paypal, who dealed with my problem well, and the end result is that they have ruled on my side, no real alternative, but as Wayne Henderson said of course these lowlifes I dealt with cleared their account of funds so no money for me.

Of course since my first posting Ali and his partner in crime have taken down the site, and for a while left a message which contained the biggest load of B******* I have ever read. They make it sound so honourable and unfortunate that they have had to close the business, just to "feed the family". Since they have lied and conned money out of me, and by the look of it others are going to be hard hit as well, I at least do not have a lot of sympathy. I do not provide any form of child benefit scheme, it is up to Ali to do this not me or any others. We all have some form of dependent, but I dont steal off other people to pay for their food.

They appear to have run their site for at least a couple of years plus. Over that time they must have had some customers, and must be taking some money. To actually close their site does not make sense, they have a site which was working, and making some money even if not highly profitable, it would only need work. To close it means they have thrown away an asset which could put some slices of bread on the table for the poor starving little children. I can only assume that they have run the bussiness into the ground, and have made such a mess of it it became a liablity, I became another victim.

As already said I paid by debit card so no money back for me, my mistake of which I have learnt the hard way, and for others to make a note of.

They conlcude that vengavenga are not proud of the way they have ended. Too true they should be ashamed, I have not stolen money off them, why should they do that to me, a disgusting pair of human beings, may they get what they deserve in life. The only consulation is that becuase of many archives that once their kids grow up, (if of course they have any or is this another lie?) they hopefully will find this information and find out what sort of parents they really have. Not only have the parents conned me, but to do so they have hidden behind their kids, how pathetic can you get.

They alledge because of their acute lack of food for the family they are returning to the UK, call me curious here, but they had a life in Malaga, and because they have a problem with their site they are going to pack it all in and return to the UK, I reckon this is another dodgy tale, although it would be nice if they did return so I could meet them.

Some people have asked why I dealt with such a company, and about their basic type sites. They are right, but it is sometimes neccassary to work wthin a budget. It was a new product which I am trying in the UK, and wanted to start off with a low cost site, then if it became established go for a nice bells and whistles one, but step at a time was considered best. Clearly this idea failed, and it will cost me more money, we all learn. This idea is a normal idea, if you have limited or no funds, its not to be knocked, we cant all afford web 2.0 top of the range sites on start up. I picked vengavenga because they had been around for some time and had a look that I wanted, of course I know different now, but we can all be wise after the event.

I would like to thank everyone who has contrbuted on this forum, I have had a bad experience, some of it bought on by myself, and from that I have learnt. I hope that others in a similar sitaution will think that little bit more, but still work within your budget.

For anyones interest the domain name details are :-
Louise Prior (ali@vengavenga.com)
152 St Wilfrids Avenue
Leeds
null,LS8 3PS
GB
Tel. +44.010000000000

But how true these details are again dubious, who knows someone in the area may be able to confirm or not.

My last comment is that if ever you hear the name Ali or Lou Prior, run as fast as you can because they are after your money.

I for sure will be keeping an eye out for them. So are Paypal, and so are Ebay, lets hope they never show their faces ever again.

If anyone wants to take this further and take leagl proceeding agaisnt them I will give my 100% backing.

Regards

Phil

I'm another one who got caught by vengavenga. I've just come back from holiday to find my website no longer exists. I'm only grateful that I was slack and didn't pay out for some work just before I went away - something they were actively encouraging me to do despite the fact they must have known they were about to fold.

Excellent points raised by Matt Quinn. I went with them in the first place as they came recommended - and until now I've had no problems. They may not have been the best, but they were a good and cost-effective way of starting up for me at a time when I was on a steep learning curve.

Right - back to figuring out what to do next!

Regards

Angie

There are now three of us who are seeking to go to the police to investigate Ali Prior at vengavenga. I would like to urge anyone out there who has been a victim to contact me so that the police will take matters seriously. The more the merrier. wenmoo20@hotmail.com or info@chocolatetree.co.uk

We have tracked them down and know where they are. Please contact me if you want your money back. Wendy Moore
info@chocolatetree.co.uk

Hello All,

I am sorry to hear of your troubles with Venga Venga.

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i hope these hosting offers can help you and wish you all the luck with getting any money back from them.

Update,

If anyone has any information on vengavenga please leave me a message or contact me at info@chocolatetree.co.uk
They knew that they were moving back to the UK in December at the least and I have spoken with people who had paid lots of money for a new scheme they set up just before they did a runner.
I have gained a lot of information and have many 'customers' who wish to pursue vengavenga for their money back. One person has free access to a solicitor.
I urge people to not let this go as there are quite a few of us and these two need to be stopped. They are still trading and it is our duty to stop others being ripped off.
One of their websites is www.freelollies.co.uk
Thank you to everyone who has contacted me so far. Your information has been invaluable.

Now got 10 names who wish to pusue a case

I hope you get them they left me for dead, fortunatly I had not booked any work with them, but they had been touting for promotion work when they must have known they were going down, I only found out about it because another web design company contacted me asking if they could take over hosting my site www.mollyanns.com I had a hellish time keeping my domain name I got out just before their server went down or it would have been 3 years hard work down the pan.

Jackie Myers