Dave, I don't mean to sound alarmist, but a large order out of the blue from Nigeria on credit card rings lots of bad vibe bells in my head. Nigeria is the king country of scammers. The scam works like this. Purchase large order from small company. Small company delighted, bends over backwards to help and ignores normal controls. Card is fraudulent, and the costs are charged back to you. So you pay for their shiny new goods. Unless you are 100% certain these people are legitimate I would not ship until the charge back period has ended and you have the money. I.e. the bank cant claw it back if the card turns out to be fraudulent. You should discuss the transaction with the bank upfront given the potential risk. If the customers query this, ask for a bankers draft or other method of payment where you have cleared funds. Anyone with a legitimate business will be able to transfer funds into your account. Don’t take any crap about them not being able to do this. You can wire money from Nigeria to the UK, just as you can from France and Germany. Be careful! If they are legitimate, then I don’t see a problem with using someone else’s card reader as a one off, so long as you agree terms (i.e. what happens to charge backs). However I would go back to a simple bank:bank transfer as being the easiest way to move money around between businesses. Regards, James Smith Chartered Accountant [url]www.jamesesmith.co.uk[/url] [url]www.uktaxshop.co.uk [/url] 01284 764436
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James Smith
Chartered Accountant
www.jamesesmith.co.uk

---------------------------
Your indispensable guide to Small Business Bookkeeping, Self-Assessment & VAT

I agree with james unfortunatly!! fingers crossed they are legitimate!! let you know! Rachael
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www.rpevents.co.uk - New site is LIVE!!!
www.craftybytes.co.uk

Hi david beware of this one. have you been able to verify the request is a genuine company. if you have the card details call up the card company before you do anything you probably could get someone else to do it but not for free unless you know them. the reason being is that certainly in my case there is a 5% retainer for 6 months on all cards incase of chargebacks try and convince them to take BACS
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Yes, you need to do thorough checks, as I have heard this exact scenario described as a common scam. http://ocala4sale.com/information/nigerian-scam.htm Regards Amanda
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Regards

Amanda


Truly Ace Graphic Design Blog


Logo Design I Web Design I Print Design

There are many reasons why you should act with care when dealing with Nigerian orders, and whilst I work in the IT industry and supply to Nigerian companies, it is very hard to establish whether or not the company is genuine. I will typically recieve 3 to 4 email each week offering me cash up front, credit cards, cheques in the company name etc. to supply IT hardware, believe me, it has been tempting to take the orders. But as a "seasoned" IT sales guy by asking a series of questions at the begining, I can now resonably establish which are genuine and which are suspicious. Not to say that am 100% right but to protect yourself it is better to go in with eyes wide open, than otherwise. There were lists and listings that you can find online that list most of the reputable Nigerian companies that deal with broadline manufacturers. This is only my opinion, please be careful and like other posts have implied check the details thoroughly. It will save you heartache later !!!!

This must be a development of the traditional "money found/ transferred to the king who died etc scams" I had a call and email from Africa yesterday saying they wanted to purchase our products but could not pay by credit card (visa problems...) They wanted my bank account details to make a direct transfer. I didn't progress this order even if it was legit - just in case - but they would not use my Visa/ MC payment pages which is hosted by Worldpay. I wonder why.. Watch out regards Peter
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Business Plan Solutions
http://www.teneric.co.uk

I have had personal experience of this - and was very lucky to actually get hold of worldpay - JUST before my product left the UK - worldpay told me that what they guy did (Tommy) was use a random generator in my shop - until a card actually worked - and that if I had let the games leave the UK (they were at the shipping depot) then I would have lost the lot. In my opinion, and experience - get cleared funds
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Lady Lea

www.leabeven.com">href="http://www.leabeven.com">www.leabeven.com & www.housemouseuk.com

Same here, we've had a similar thing with a customer, card transaction authorised by the card issuer but security code didn't match and only a partial address match. As it is we use Experian for credit search purposes and there was no such person at the address given... Be careful!
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Jamie
www.TamarTelecommunications.co.uk">href="http://www.TamarTelecommunications.co.uk">www.TamarTelecommunications.co.uk

I agree with everything said by everybody above. We get these emails. Click on 'delete'. It's the best best thing you'll ever do....
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Richard Mellor
www.augusthomefinders.co.uk
www.planetairedale.com

A lot of very sound advice here in this thread. Personally I use the power of the net to check out as much as I can about any deal.Paul. www.ezibuy.co.uk

Hello Everybody, I have read this post and all the replies concerning doing business with Nigerians and my conclusion is that some people make very unintelligent and sweeping statements when they should not, it's really sad. I am a Nigerian, living in Nigeria doing a legitimate internet based business with almost all the services I render being supported and/or provided by companies in either UK or USA. Someone said that Nigeria is king of scams and I disagree with him completely. No statistics supports his claim and if the truth must be told how many of the online scam emails you receive everyday come from Nigerians? Less than 10% I am sure or the rest 90% aren't scams simply because they are sent by non Nigerians? Credit card facility is non existent in Nigeria and the only sure way to do business with Nigerians remains International money order or wire transfers with one who has a domicilliary account (every serious businessman in Nigeria should have one). I deal with at least 4 different companies excluding ebay customers and I have paid for every single item through wire transfers or international money order on more than 20 occassions. Davels, my advice is to arrange for a payment solution that will reduce the risk instead of very silly statement like pressing the delete key once you get an email from Nigeria. It might interest you to know that both Microsoft and Intel are paying a great deal of attention in having a foot print in Nigeria. Nigeria is a rich country with people that are ready to pay for the best technology in the world, so do business with them for some of them are legitimate and those who discourage you may go behind you to do business with Nigerians. Scam emails are sent from all over the world with less that 10% coming from Nigeria, the problem being that scam emails from Nigeria are widely publicised and celebrated. I recieved no less than a hundred unsolicited emails and scams daily and all I do is minimize the risk associated with any email i may decide to open. Afam http://www.lagosestores.com
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Afam Nnaji
Just Web Services.
http://www.justwebservices.com">href="http://www.justwebservices.com">http://www.justwebservices.com

Hi Afam, I completely appreciate your post... thank you. It's good to have work from someone inside Nigeria who can provide accurate details such as these. The customer I was referring to specifically did turn out to be a hoax, they gave me cloned credit card numbers with names, addresses and so on. I completly appreciate that some offers and genuine - but in this case it was not. We have 3-4 emails now per week from companies asking for hardware. All, and I mean all, come from @excite.com, @yahoo.com or @hotmail.com addresses... we've had no genuine sales after checking them all out carefully. I think if these companies are to attract international suppliers they should make more of an effort to make themselves look to be proper and legal! Once again - appreciate your input sincerely. I'd happily do business with any company in Nigeria that goes lengths to prove its legitimacy, ie, your company. Regards David David Middlesex Technology Services www.mtsuk.net
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David

www.mtsuk.net

Hi, I read Afam post with great interest, and though I would agree with some of his posts, I like to point out that within the Hi Tech sectors and industries, fraud and bribery is still rife, it is very prudent to establish as much as possible the credentials of "some" Nigerian businessmen. When you are dealing with high value product, with somebody that you don't know, haven't heard of and recieve an email from a hotmail, yahoo, or "broadline" account, the warning bells must surely sound, not that I am saying that each one that you recieve is fraudulent, but in the business community, company image is still important. An email from your own company would look much better would it not ??? A lot of scam emails are now generated from a few key areas in the world, the African continent, mainly because of it's sheer size account for a good propotion of those, not indicating that Nigeria holds the monopoly, but the more prolific cases where people have actually have lost a great deal of money, have lost it to Nigerians, email emanating from Eastern Europe have started to circulate, and my guess is, that soon this area will be highlighted as the next "scam" capital of the world. My only suggestion is to approach any potential deals with "both eyes open" !!!!

Nigeria? Wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. we used to get 2 or 3 orders a day from Nigeria, but we ignore them now - all fraud. Daniel www.jeans-direct.com

try to get this customer to register with Moneybookers.com, they are very similar to Paypal, but they guarantee that all the funds credited on your account are yours. if it's fraud, and if the funds are on your account, then it will be between moneybookers.com and your customer... it's worth trying!!

Hello, Thanks a lot for your emails thus far. Lets keep simple things simple. Orders will come from Nigeria for products they want to buy. Whether one goes ahead or not is personal. I have stated before and will repeat it again, credit/debit card facilities are non existent here in Nigeria. However, you have a lot of credit card issuing companies from the US that offer to provide such services to Nigerians through their agents in Nigeria. What they do is collect very large commissions and provide virtual debit cards (since you have paid for them anyway) with the Nigerian's name but with a US address and unless you are buying a digital product don't make sense. I think it's unethical and wrong that is why I won't touch it. You have different credit card companies doing it and only God knows if they are not just recycling stolen credit cards since all they do is provide one with the card details without you seeing or touching the card. I have discussed with Mastercard on this issue and they maintained that company policy as at the middle of last year won't allow them near Nigeria, I won't blame them. Another problem is that such easy and affordable online payment solutions like paypal and clickbank don't have room for people from Nigeria. I buy items on Ebay and end up doing a wire transfer or money order. The bottom line is I have the money to pay for what I have and any payment option other than credit/debit card is okay for me. You see, it is difficult for the honest Nigeria to do an online business since access to the necessary tools are often outside their reach through faults of greedy Nigerians who have indulged and are still indulging in scams. So I am not making excuses for Nigerians here. All I am saying is that Nigerians are extremely rich, forget the corruption and intelligent too. They are ready to pay for anything they need once they can afford it. Just be on the careful side, that's all. Nokia, Samsung, Dell, Microsoft, Intel, IBM all have multimillion dollar investments in Nigeria and are actually stepping up their spendings because of the increased awareness in IT. It might interest you to know that other African countries do come to buy computer hardware from Nigeria and that is why a lot of people are going into the business. Davels, if/when I decide to get computer hardware at competitive prices I will contact you. For now I just deal on simple web services without any need for any hardware whatsoever although some of my clients always want me to provide hardware for them. All such requests are forwarded to whoever I think can deliver quality service here in Nigeria. It's all about integrity. Afam http://www.lagosestores.com http://www.justwebservices.com
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Afam Nnaji
Just Web Services.
http://www.justwebservices.com">href="http://www.justwebservices.com">http://www.justwebservices.com

Hi, It was really interesting reading all your comments about this1 Anyway, i am a Nigerian business man doing business in the U.K, i do a lot of payment for folks back at home cos, the credit system is not available. I have made a lot of money just by paying for goods with my credit cards. most legit business men have domicillary acc. just as afam said but it takes ages to transfer and based on cash flow from banks and Central bank of Nigeria! Fair enough scammers exits but also legit businesss men are by far the majority. All i say is make enquries well, Do not send Acc. no, Let your money clear first before supplying, but trust me there is money to be made easy in Nigeria. CYRIL

This topic has turned out really interesting. can you tell me if nigerian businesses have easy acess to business cheques? this would be the safest way for me i feel.
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Hello Cyril, Your comments are okay but I disagree totally with the part that says that it takes ages to transfer and based on cash flow from banks and Central bank of Nigeria! Maybe it's been long you did that in Nigeria. I have wired funds outside Nigeria and recieved funds even from Brazil over 16 times and whether I am sending or receiving funds it has never taken more than 4-5 working days. The Central Bank of course will normally scrutinize documents to make sure that the business that the funds are for is legitimate and I believe that any time spent by the Central Bank to make things work is worth it since after all we need to correct so many ills especially the scam types. I can only see reason in that statement if you are making a case for people to make use of your credit cards to make payments online. I believe that a secure and proper transaction is more important to speed in this case if the waiting period between sending and accessing funds is just 4 working days. The order option is international money order. It can get to you in a day or 2 if you choose to courier it otherwise regular post will still achieve the same thing. I make use of the two and I have nothing to worry about which is more important to me than the time. The problem here is that a lot of Nigerians are misinformed even in their own backyard hence the urge to look for short cuts in making payments online. I think it's natural for a seller to access funds before shipping any products. I have asked for bank account details from big and serious companies before making a wire transfer and they all oblige me. All that is neccessary for this to happen is trust, credibility and sincerity of purpose which unfortunately isn't a common practice in today's business world. Like Cyril said, there is more than enough money to make in Nigeria through legitimate means. Genuine businessmen far outnumber the fakes. Better still why don't the sellers come together and look for a company in Nigeria to help them do background checks on some of these orders. credit card facility is non existent here in Nigeria, so some of you guys should spare us this issue of Nigerians living in Nigeria placing orders with credit cards. Afam http://www.lagosestores.com
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Afam Nnaji
Just Web Services.
http://www.justwebservices.com">href="http://www.justwebservices.com">http://www.justwebservices.com

What you don't understand is that the English find it easier to make sweeping generalisations about people of other nationalities, than to find effective ways of doing business. Has anyone ever considered that stupid, greedy, lazy people are most likely to fall prey to conmen, whatever country they come from??

hello, i want to comment on the issue of all nigerian orders being scam mails. i am a nigerian and must confess that some nigerians are involved in scam but at the same time we have a lot more genuine business people in nigeria.using a recent experience of myself -a young nigerian university undergraduate;i came across this advertising firm on the net and really felt we could do some good business by my being their representative in nigeria so i sent them a mail with all the necessary information about myself and my young company but to my suprise all the response i have gotten has been utter silence. i,m really worried cos i think we got prospects so u see,sometimes the mails cld be real.thanxl

Hello, Having read people's opinion about credit card usage from Nigerians, does it mean that Mastercard and Visa cannot be effectively established and implemented in Nigeria? Are we ruling their presence in Nigeria out?

Hi Afam, Good day. Whenever I read your posts, I always get some elements of facts therein. On the issue of purported scam mails which people have atributed 100% to Nigerians, I want to let people know that Nigeria is not the only country in the world. Does it mean that every scam mail originated from Nigerian? is there any country that is devoid of internet crime/scam? I am not saying that Nigerians are totally exhornorated from scam mails, but I think people have taken it too far. WE cannot generalise it that every Nigerian is a fraudster. They should know that some of us have legitimate business and we are trying every effort to redeem our image. I have an experience with a guy in London last year when my company launched an online property market website, www.propertynigeria.com The guy wrote me that we are fraudsters and that NOTHING GOOD CAN COME OUT OF NIGERIA IN THE AREA OF ONLINE MARKETING I thank God that we are still striving and receiving average of 800 visitors to our sites daily from last year September and still on Nigerian online newspapers adverts and people have been buying properties through us since then. Why did I write so much, is just to let world know that not every Nigerian online merchants are fraudster. My advice to Dave is to take to people's advice and please make sure that you check thoroughly before you dispatched you goods.

Hello Mba, Don't worry yourself about the constant blaming of Nigerians for every single email that flies in cyberspace. Times are changing and a lot of People are being left behind in that thinking. Microsoft, Intel, Dell etc are spending billions here in Nigeria because they know the potential, they already have their ROI worked out, they know we are rich and spend freely for anything we want, they know that IT is growing, they have heard that the number of mobile phones in Nigeria is higher than the number of even land lines in some developed nations. They know all these things and that is why they are here. They chose to know the facts and make business and strategic decisions. Having worked with expatriates in the past, almost 90% of them that come to work in Nigeria end up resigning and establishing here when it's time for them to go home. There is money to be made in Nigeria and plenty too. Even with the corruption in Nigeria, we still sustain a lot of both developing countries and developed countries. Mba, forget about the foreign media, it won't change the facts on ground. All the best and do send an email to me at afam@lagosestores.com for some business propositions. Afam http:www.lagosestores.com
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Afam Nnaji
Just Web Services.
http://www.justwebservices.com">href="http://www.justwebservices.com">http://www.justwebservices.com

Hi guys, Newbie here. I have read the posts this topic with interest. I am a dual citizen of both the UK and Nigeria. I think it's a shame that a few (okay more than a few) rotten apples are causing peolple worldwide to jump to conclusions about Nigerians as a whole. The simple truth is that there are scammers everywhere and one only gets scammed if one is a) careless b)greedy. There are numerous legitimate businesses being run by Nigerians in Nigeria and outside Nigeria. There are simple precautions to take when dealing with Nigeria. I have to say that we Nigerians as a whole are intelligent but these scammers use their intelligence negatively. I note that this forum is full of smart and intelligent people who are eager to move forward in business and enterprise by being open-minded and eager to progress with good/great ideas. I'd asked that people stop making generalised comments about Nigerians or other nationalities as that is a narrow minded approach to issues and breeds negative feedback. As Brit/nigerian that travels annually to Lagos, I also have to say that Nigeria does have unlimited opportunies to make money for those with a good idea, connections or expertise. Have a nice day all.
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Trojan
"Chance favours the prepared mind"

Hi David

I think your best bet is to have your friend who has the PDQ machine to call Streamline or his system provider and get the card details checked to the name and address supplied as the cardholders details (this will cost him £3). They will check for any mismatch in card details and this will lead you to ascertain whether the card is perhaps cloned, in which case you will not want to proceed business with this customer. In my book only honest business is good business.

I have been in exactly the same situation as you recently, the card was declined immediately, so I called Streamline and I asked for another number to ring to further check the name and address because I was a little suspicious and I did not want to go down the route of taking further cards and helping facilitating any organised crime. The Details totally mismatched. I was also asked to dispatch directly to a county abroad.

Hope this helps David.

Hi all,
Nigerians or No Nigerians whoever want to do scam will do it if BBC, Channel 4 etc who are reputable corporations can do phone scam then what else?
The point is that if you want to transact any business in this case of Nigeria or a like orders
Get clear fund before you complete transaction.
Nigeria is a big potential for business only be wise, smart and be open minded.

Nigeria!!! DON'T DON'T DONT.. THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY!
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Let not our future generation suffer.. Reduce waste, Recycle.

http://www.lyonssolutions.co.uk

Nigeria!!! DON'T DON'T DONT.. THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY!
------------------------
Let not our future generation suffer.. Reduce waste, Recycle.

http://www.lyonssolutions.co.uk

Nigeria!!! DON'T DON'T DONT.. THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY!
------------------------
Let not our future generation suffer.. Reduce waste, Recycle.

http://www.lyonssolutions.co.uk

Nigeria!!! DON'T DON'T DONT.. THATS ALL I HAVE TO SAY!
------------------------
Let not our future generation suffer.. Reduce waste, Recycle.

http://www.lyonssolutions.co.uk