Hi,
I am in the process of setting up an online company with a friend. I have been researching search engine optimisation today and am still not sure if we should invest in seo ( have someone do it for us) or do it ourselves. Does anyone have any tips/experience with this?
RE: search engine optimisation
Dewetha | 13/05/2006 07:02 PM
In my experience site maps and getting listed on directories that specialise in your market as well as general directories make a hell of a lot of difference.
Try yourself first and if you dont have any luck then employ another organisation to try for you.
RE: RE: search engine optimisation
HandyExperts | 31/05/2006 07:14 PM
The Google Programmers have recently implemented many new technologies for detecting techniques used by Search Engine Optimisers. If they detect that you are trying to ‘cheat’ they could leave you out of the search listing altogether! Just read this article about what happened to BMW Germany.
http://blog.outer-court.com/archive/2006-02-04-n60.html
What the search engines (in particular Google) like is relevant and up to date content. Try to add a new page to your site as often as possible maybe once a week or once a month. Eventually Google will detect that you are an ‘honest’ site and reward you with a higher placement in the search results.
It does take time though, several months, possible a year. Whilst you are working towards this happening you should also get listed in as many specialised directories as possible, as suggested by Dewetha.
You can find these specialised directories by going to Google and entering the type of your business, for example ‘Carpet Cleaners’ followed by directory. You’ll have to trawl through the results and try variations such as ‘Carpet cleaner’ and directories. Eventually you’ll find a few places where you can get a free or low cost listing.
------------------------
Clive works for
www.handyexperts.co.uk">href="http://www.handyexperts.co.uk">www.handyexperts.co.uk A directory specialising in all types of trades that householders require.
RE: search engine optimisation
SPower | 14/05/2006 11:41 AM
There is also a great book - SEO for dummies (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764567586/qid=1147602874/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_18_1/026-6285969-9891668) - that gives an overview of the technology for beginners. Having an outsourced SEO process can be quite expensive for new businesses, typically an initial fee of £500 - £1,000 and a monthly fee of around £100. If you have the ability to design your own site, then SEO should initially be within your grasp.
------------------------
Sean Power
www.quadrigamotivation.co.uk
http://startup-it-security.blogspot.com/
"What I do today is important because I am exchanging a day of my life for it."
RE: RE: search engine optimisation
mandy | 15/05/2006 09:16 AM
Thanks for your replies, I going to order the book asap and give it try ourselves.
RE: RE: search engine optimisation
ecom-solution.co.uk | 16/05/2006 10:19 PM
Originally posted by: SPower
There is also a great book - SEO for dummies (http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0764567586/qid=1147602874/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_18_1/026-6285969-9891668) - that gives an overview of the technology for beginners. Having an outsourced SEO process can be quite expensive for new businesses, typically an initial fee of £500 - £1,000 and a monthly fee of around £100. If you have the ability to design your own site, then SEO should initially be within your grasp.
seo is no mystery (more hit n miss)in my experience ,and spower some one robbed you initial fees and all when you have seo the site should be getting optimized (so a one of fee we charge £125 for 25 page site).
First things to do are lots of internal links in all your content with the right meta tags and keywords .
Next remove all the messy j script (put all that in 1 file and link to it)
Then with all images add alt tags that say what the image is about(adds more content)
Go through your page content make sure that the keywords you use are in the content aswell.
Then when the site has been optimised i usually install phpdig and create a internal search engine to the site 1 this double's the content and 2 adds a search site feature ,and to other quotes google has let people in on the full workings have a look at www.webmonkey.com they have been through the full workings of google and google itself has http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/ if you would like seo vist our site at http://www.tele-pro.co.uk/search/optimisation.htm
------------------------
http://www.ecom-hosting-solution.com <<< Ecommerce Hosting from £30 YEAR http://www.tele-pro.co.uk <<< Seo Security and custom programing http://www.safe-email.eu <<< Stops 100% of spam email http://google-search-optimisation.com <<< Free directory listing
RE: search engine optimisation
awebapart | 16/05/2006 05:47 PM
I certainly wouldn't try to fully explain SEO in a short message. You could write a book on the subject, and people have.
I can however explain why there is mystery surrounding SEO:
1. Search Engine Optimisation isn't about optimising your site for just one search engine, it's about optimising for many search engines (the major ones being google, msnsearch, and yahoo), each with their own way of doing things.
2. The search engine providers (e.g. google) do not publish exactly how their search engines work, for many reasons, including:
2.1 The less you know, the less likely you are to feature high in searches, and the more likely you are to pay them for paid listings
2.2 It protects their intellectual property and makes it more difficult for their competitors to mimic their features and success
2.3 A published explanation of how a search engine works can mislead people into thinking that it is a contract, i.e. if they abide by the rules they are guaranteed a result. The last thing the search engine providers want is a load of support calls from web owners who are not getting the results they want from a free service. A published explanation would also set things in stone, and search engine providers dont want this as they continually want to change how their system works.
3. As mentioned in 2.3, the way the search engines work are continually changing, either because the provider wants to improve it, or penalise sites who are abusing the system with spamming techniques, link farms, etc. If you decide to buy a book on SEO get a recent edition, and expect it to be out of date in the very near future. The same is true for SEO articles, check the date, and expect recommendations to change in the future.
4. SEO usually isn't about optimising for a single phrase, but for a number of phrases and words, and can involve a fine and complex balancing act, since optimising too much in one area can be detrimental to another area you want to optimise for, thus adding to the mystery
5. Any understanding of how the search engines work is thus gained from experience and trial and error, or reading articles from other people who have gained such experience, or reading very brief high level guidelines from the providers (e.g. www.google.com/webmasters)
6. Search engines are complex systems, so optimising for them will not be completely simple.
7. Applying an SEO technique does not give an immediate result, it can be weeks or months before a difference is noticed, adding to the mystery.
8. As with any area surrounded in mystery, you will find the snake oil peddlers offering quick win solutions. These snake oil solutions either dont work or they might offer quick results using dubious techniques which run the risk of having your site banned from search engines completely. Either way, you have the situation that you will get different messages and information about SEO from the snake oil peddlers and from the more professional and reputable people who have more of an understanding of SEO.
------------------------
Paul - www.awebapart.com - 'a web apart'
create, update your website today - the online professional site builder
RE: search engine optimisation
Ian J | 17/05/2006 07:48 AM
One of my competitors has obviously read up on SEO and his site has a variety of pages that are broadly similar but each one has been changed to suit a particular key word or phrase and many of his pages seem to link to each other via a menu system in the left and right hand margins.
He has written a variety of internal articles that are linked from the index page and whilst he has done quite a lot correctly from an SEO point of view he has made one huge mistake in that his site is now such a mass of underlined links and menus that the reader will have a quick look at the resulting mess and just not want to read the text as the whole page is now so unsightly.
------------------------
Ian
Factoring ,
Invoice Discounting ,
Trade Finance and
Asset Finance specialist broker.
Founder member of
Independent Factoring Brokers Association
RE: search engine optimisation
c2webdesign | 17/05/2006 01:46 PM
If your confident enough to do your own SEO then have a go. If you understand meta tags, title tags, BL's, recipricol vs one way links, the use of articles, keyword density etc.... then your ready to tackle this yourself.
If you understand none of this (and sounds absolute jargon) enlist the services of a professional.
Dean
C2 Web Design
http://www.c2webdesign.co.uk
>> SEO Start Up Package from £99
RE: search engine optimisation
Phil Rees | 17/05/2006 02:50 PM
Think im going to be enlisting a professional - ;D
Mind you know what they say
If you want to kill snakes - find a consultant who knows how to kill snakes!!
------------------------
Philip Rees - Considering entering startups 2008 
________________________________________
WWW.RESULTEUROPE.COM - 0870 896 4631
THE FRONTLINE FOR SALES AND MARKETING
www.countybusinessforums.uk.tt">href="http://www.countybusinessforums.uk.tt">www.countybusinessforums.uk.tt Real local business - Real local Issues
Copyright Result Europe 2006
RE: search engine optimisation
buyingfirsttime.co.uk | 17/05/2006 03:21 PM
Be wary of people who can get good results in MSN, its really quite easy and if you want to know exactly how i can point you in the right direction on the previously mentioned forum.
The real trick is getting good traffic from Google.
One simple SEO don't do:
Don't put keywords at random around your page in hard to read (Or the same colour as your background) text - Google will penalise you.
and especially dont buy SEO packages from someone who does on their own site!
------------------------
www.buyingfirsttime.co.uk">href="http://www.buyingfirsttime.co.uk">www.buyingfirsttime.co.uk - The site for first time buyers
www.countycricketclubs.co.uk - The County Cricket Forum
RE: search engine optimisation
ecom-solution.co.uk | 20/05/2006 01:04 AM
Ian J
He has written a variety of internal articles that are linked from the index page and whilst he has done quite a lot correctly from an SEO point of view he has made one huge mistake in that his site is now such a mass of underlined links and menus that the reader will have a quick look at the resulting mess and just not want to read the text as the whole page is now so unsightly.
Tell your mate to make stylesheet.css and make the hyperlinks only show on mouse over or not at all 
A:link{
COLOR: #5378A6;
TEXT-DECORATION: none
}
A:visited{
COLOR: #5378A6;
TEXT-DECORATION: none
}
A:hover{
COLOR: #7099CD;
TEXT-DECORATION: underline
}
that way you get the great seo advantage without the uglyness
------------------------
http://www.ecom-hosting-solution.com <<< Ecommerce Hosting from £30 YEAR http://www.tele-pro.co.uk <<< Seo Security and custom programing http://www.safe-email.eu <<< Stops 100% of spam email http://google-search-optimisation.com <<< Free directory listing
RE: search engine optimisation
danners | 29/05/2006 10:02 PM
SEO is pretty complex but I'll break it down as far as possible - there are 2 factors:
1. On page factors - your sites coding and content which you have control over
2. Off page factors - pages that link to your website (generally not completely under your control)
Recommended process is:
1. Find relevant keyphrases
Decide the phrases you rate targetting by either using PPC data from Google Adsense if you are using it plus visiting keyword suggestion tools such as this.
Each page should only target 3-4 phrases so find a short sentence that encompases all. An example - my homepage is titled "UK Website Design by Professional Website Designers" - this covers the following phrases:
"website design", "website design UK", "UK website design", "website designer", "website designers", "professional website designers", "website designers UK" - check on the Google UK results - I rank high for all these.
You should then check the phrases on Google searches and see how many results are returned - the more results the more competitive the phrase - less results means higher likelihood of success for you.
2. Page coding
The coding of the pages is very important - look at the source HTML code of web pages (view - view source) - there should be the least amount of code to actual copy that appears to the reader allowing a search engine spider to visit the page and quickly find the page content it likes. Code should also be semantic (ie: properly formatted using H1, H2, H3 tags, un-numbered lists, paragraph tags) and validate to web standards. A very good example is http://www.fast-transport.co.uk. The individual page content (main section in middle) appears first in the code. Following this code example would be a good idea.
3. Page content
Content is King - the better written, the more of it, the more relevant, more pages, etc. This is what Search Engines love. Of course the phrases you identified in 1. (above) need to feature a lot in this copy - in the
, keywords and description tags in <head> section (which reader does not see) plus as the page header (h1) tag, sub-headers (h2's) and sub-sub (h3's) headers plus smattered throughout the paragraphs on the page individually, some in bold, italic or <strong>.<p><b>4. Links</b><br>Your internal navigation links are important - if you have a page optimised for 'blue widgets' then use those words for the link that points to that page on the site-side menu - it helps the search engine identify the page as being about 'blue widgets'. This is also important when other people link to your website.<p><b>5. Get links</b><br>The more links you get to your website the higher your Google Pagrank will be plus all the links tell the search engines what your site is above. See the links in my signature at end of this post for an example!<br>Tip: type your website address directly into search box of Google, eg: <a target="_new" href="http://www.mywebsitename.com" rel="nofollow">www.mywebsitename.com</a> - Google will reveal some interesting info for you about it including how many pages are in its index from your site plus how many other websites link to it.<br>You can get links by registering with <a href="http://www.webproworld.com/viewtopic.php?t=21900" rel="nofollow">online directories</a>, trading links with other websites relevant to yours (reciprocal links) - dont trade with any old site - this may harm you. You can also write online articles and press releases. Hopefully if you have a quality site or product links from others will occur naturally.<br>Links are key - a link to your website is like a vote for your website and the more votes search engines see the more they see it as a quality resource.<p><b>6. Resources</b><br>Some useful resources for those who wish to investigate further:<br><a target="_new" href="http://www.webmasterworld.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.webmasterworld.com</a> - even Google goes to get feedback on their results from this site!<br><a target="_new" href="http://www.featurecreep.com/articles/seo/" rel="nofollow">http://www.featurecreep.com/articles/seo/</a><p>- Dan<br><br clear="all"/>------------------------<br clear="all"/><a href="http://www.4w.co.uk/" rel="nofollow"><h3 style="padding: 0; margin:0">Web Design Company</h3></a><br>Looking for <a href="http://www.4-walls.com" rel="nofollow"><strong>professional website designers</strong></a> with search engine optimisation knowledge?
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