Hello and welcome to the forum. Age is irrelevent here as what you lack in experience you obviously make up for in drive and enthusiasm which counts for far more!!

Books is a reallly tough market Dr Bob - you have the online giant Amazon as your number one competitor (9 out of 10 books sold online through amazon) and every town has an Ottakers or Waterstones.

The only way I oculd see you competiting is to open a store catering for a really niche market - but even then, Amazon is so huge that it covers many smaller markets too.

I'd be nervous about going into this sort of business without a really unique selling angle. Look at what is out there at the moment and try to come up with something different be it product range, service or operationally.

Think laterally - look at the guys who decided to put costa coffee inside a book shop! Great creative thinking! What coudl you do to a book shop to make it different and give people a reason to visit you rather than buy from Amazon or go to one of the big high street giants?

------------------------

On the positive side, I like the fact you have identified a niche. Not having too much direct competition is most certainly a very good thing, on the other hand as above it is hard to compete with Amazon given they will deliver next day on a massive range. All you could hope to do would be to offer a pleasant shopping environment (my partner for one can’t walk past a bookshop without going in, especially a second hand one) and a next day ordering service for all other titles.

However back to the painful reality, no matter how hard you try without any seed capital you just won’t be able to open a physical shop without a huge struggle. Loans and grants are great but you generally need cash to invest to borrow more and may well end up heavily in debt if things don’t work out for you. Moreover it sounds like this is just something you have spotted as opposed to something you are passionate about. It helps to do something you are passionate and knowledgeable about or you will tend to get bored pretty quickly.

I know this sounds really miserable and negative but you need to think about projects you can do without any capital in order to build wealth to put it into the projects you really want to run in the longer term. You have one great advantage over many of us - plenty of time! Use that time well to build your knowledge and personal wealth, (through employment if need be). Ebay isn’t a bad introduction to business but I cant see how people make any serious money out of it as there are too many part timers happy earning £3 an hour.

Good luck, and dont give up, and nice to see a long time lurker posting!

Regards,
------------------------
James Smith
Chartered Accountant
www.jamesesmith.co.uk

---------------------------
Your indispensable guide to Small Business Bookkeeping, Self-Assessment & VAT

Hi,

Thanks for your replies. First off Johnny I would like to confirm that I am very enthsiastic about going down the path to self employment and due to this I started working weekends at age 14 in a small newsagents where I got experience of different aspects of the running of the shop - however now it is up for sale because the owner is taking early retirement so thats me out of any extra experience there.

Yes, I do understand that book selling is a tough market covered with chain stores and Amazon two examples being Amazon and Waterstones. I feel that they would present a serious threat in competition however as I mentioned earlier I live in a small[ish]town surrounded by 2 other towns in which mine is central to the two and the town is regularly used the people who live in them and from my town you have to travel about 50 miles to get to a physical brick and mortar bookshop and therefore I think that is a possible opportunity ?. However it's not just Amazon who is possible threat there's eBay too who would pose a threat to the shop. THe other possible threat is the local library could this pose a threat to book buying ?

As for a niche market I have been thinking about what the shop could specialise in for the area aswell as others but what I have been thinking so far is: *New + Used books in which I could buy books as well as sell them and possibly doing this give them more value for the book if they used it as part payment for another book, Stationery section, I was also thinking about drinks and snacks - especially Coffee and muffins and other snacks which on this note would it be possible to sell sandwiches what rules/regulations would this be classed under ? and of course I would like a small lounge area to accomodate this overall giving a more welcoming feel. SO I hope all of this would welcome people instead of them travelling further or buying online what does anyone think about this ?

Thanks for your kind input I think your partner is a bit like me when it comes to second hand books - because the thing I enjoy about it is you never know what your going to find you could come across a great book which is why a used book shop appeals to me

Yes, the harsh reality is I have little money I could invest in it (nothing that would make a difference anyway - I have thought about the Princes Trust in this kind of case is it likely they would help with grant/loans ? how do people who have no money manage to make it in the business world ? Is it a carefully planned risk that pays off ? This is a hole that I have spotted in the market but would'nt that give me enough drive to stay passionate about ?

I do have to be told the negative side of this or else how do I expect to manage to acomplish something but I am unsure how I could make money that would be enough to make a difference in the financial situation as you will know minimum wage is 4.25 so it would take a lifetime to earn enough to make this work without a loan, however I don't know if my family could help - but I'm too scared to approach them incase it seems that I'm leeching from them and if it were to fail what could I do.

Yes, the selling on eBay was very tedious and I gave up with it pennies on this pennies on that then comes the eBay fees, paypal fees, Postage and packaging fees in the end it made little money and I feelt that after so much time it was'nt worth my time and effortas I was putting in too many hours to justify the pittance I was earning.

Thanks for both of your help ! don't worry I wont give up ! I have always been interested in this type of career so I won't be able to get it out of my head even if I wan't to

Thanks again, and if anyone has any other comments please do post.

DrBob
(not a doctor )

The point about loans is if your business fails (as many do) how would you pay it off?

Ie if you can’t save now, how would you manage to make loan repayments when no doubt rather fed up that your business venture didn’t take off? [Its easier to work hard to save for something good in the future than pay off something you have already had + interesrt] You certainly don’t want to make yourself bankrupt at 18 for the sake of a few thousand pounds. This is a risky business proposal requiring a large turnover as you will only make a few £'s per sale.

Yes you may well get help from the princess trust etc, but this will again tend to be in the form of a loan not a grant (although grants may be available if you live in a remote or deprived area).

People tend to get into business by being very boring and having some savings, whether from just saving, running a second job a redundancy, and inheritance etc. There is no magic wand.

Seeing as you do seem to have an interest in second hand books (my presumption being apparently incorrect!), could you perhaps build up a second hand book stall on a local market for instance? This may mean only doing it one or two days a week, leaving plenty of time for a proper job too for some savings. You could also perhaps order in new books for people for the following week and have a few new popular new releases for immediate sale. This would help you learn the trade without having to lay out too much.

You may actually find you get some support from family in terms of 'soft' loans (ie ones that you dfont have to pay back immediately!) if you can make a serious proposal to them. it depends on the type of people they are and what history you have.

Anyway hope this helps.

Regards,

------------------------
James Smith
Chartered Accountant
www.jamesesmith.co.uk

---------------------------
Your indispensable guide to Small Business Bookkeeping, Self-Assessment & VAT

Hi James thanks for your reply .

I see your an accountant so you wil oknow your ins and outs of the financial side of the business world. I see what yo mean about saving for something rather than the depressing fact of paying back a loan after having failed at something and being banrupt at U20 would be a big problem for any future ventures [if any]. I don't know if I live in a deprived area ? what would this mean ?

I like your idea of market selling I could try that first before going in too deep as I would be able to scrape a few hundred for that kind of thing from my own money and hopefully get a feel for how sales go and profit margins - there is a market that comes along at the week end but how do you become part of this e.g. who do you pay a fee for your spot to ? Is there anything I should know about this ? what about taxes how would I stand on this side of things ?

Do you/anyone know any suppliers / how I could find suppliers of new/used books to get me started ? I have a few books I could also sell to get the ball rolling. I assume it would be advisable to make a busniess plan even for a market stall ? Any other advice ?

Also I have a friend that would be interested in this too would it be adviseable to go at it as partners ?s

Thanks very much for all your help as you must be busy with your own work.

DrBob

Dr Bob

Have a look it may be just up your street.

http://www.kingdomcateringequipment.biz/product_info.php?products_id=299&osCsid=fabc0df22516bb7dff089874352e85d1

Paul

whats your address?

Hi Paul,

That link looks quite good at the price but unfortunately I don't have a car yet so would'nt be able to transport it - pity though because it looks as if it's worth a try...

Ok differences aside but I would'nt feel comfortable about giving my address to strangers... but why not put your book on eBay ? with a picture of it and an extract from it - If you do that people will trust you more (I know I would) and would proably purchase the book.

How did you start out and at what age ? I'm currently 17 which you'll know anyway

DrBob

(Oh and btw to address your comment "DrBob?" not I'm not a doctor its just a user name )

Dr B, in terms of the market I would ask your town council. There is often a waiting list, although if it’s not busy you may be able to rent a pitch for only a few weeks. In busy areas you may have to take it on for 3-6 months or even a year at a time. it will take a lot of time to build a business.

In terms of taxes, lots of threads on this - have a search - also look at the main section of this site.

No idea of suppliers - I think you would get most stock from things like house clearances and people coming to you. Might be good to get to know local solicitors dealing with the recently deceased! Also a regular add in local paper etc might help.

Business plan always a good idea, even if it is a simple one. Partnerships can be good, can be bad. Just make 100% sure you have agreed everything with them and written it down before your start, including what happens if you get fed up with each other! Lots of threads on this again. Have a search.

Hope that helps, bit busy need to get off live life etc! NB nice digging with our friend in the other thread.

rgds,

------------------------
James Smith
Chartered Accountant
www.jamesesmith.co.uk

---------------------------
Your indispensable guide to Small Business Bookkeeping, Self-Assessment & VAT

Hi James thanks for your responce,

I will try to find out about the market from the council and get a business plan drawn up for this.

I think I'll have a dig abround any charity shops and see if I can find anything that could get me started along with my collection of books. And I'll talk to my friend about a partner ship.

Thanks for all your help and I hope your doing well with your company.

Dr Bob

Welcome Dr Bob

I read a heck of a lot of fiction books (travelling 1.5 hours per day, plus a need to get to sleep at night ).

Personally, I like to go to a physical bookshop to peruse & purchase my books.  I am a very keen internet-user & am happy to buy most things from the net, but not books (unless they are computer-related).

It may well be that in your area, a lot of people think the same, or there may be an older market out there who do not use the net too much.

Have a good look at your area - what is the potential market in terms of type, size, etc.  Then have a look at potential places to situate your shop.

Once you get this done, put some sort of a business plan in place & have a trawl around the banks, etc and see what is available.

Personally, though, I would take the earlier advice & put this on the back-burner and try to earn some of your startup capital in other ways.

My point is - take time to see if its viable, then work towards the ultimate prize by working your socks off.  You have age and enthusiasm on your side, so don't feel you have to jump straight in.

Good luck & let us know how you get on.

Mark

www.ComspecComputers.co.uk">href="http://www.ComspecComputers.co.uk">www.ComspecComputers.co.uk  -  Home/Business Computer Services

Hi Dr Bob,

Just to add to the above thread. Do some market research and spend a few days asking some people if they would buy from a local bookshop and how they would like it to be. This research could range from knocking on your neighbours doors to standing on your high street and stopping people. If you do this quickly tell them you're not selling to help avoid scaring them off!

Cheers

Alec

Just an addition to what Alec said, do some canvasing in local libraries, are there any local book cluns, start a local book club and market through them...just an idea
------------------------

Ross Jukes

rjukes@idealmodelling.co.uk

www.idealmodelling.co.uk">href="http://www.idealmodelling.co.uk">www.idealmodelling.co.uk

www.myjobs365.com (eventually!)

Write to the libraries for old stock books, auctions, car boots etc...
Exchange and mart bankrupt stock etc…
Small advert in local paper books wanted…
speak to “The Book People” they buy bulk and send them around factories etc at Christmas.
www.THE.co.uk have a clear out once a year when “it’s a pound” turns up and buys stock.

Start with a market stall or open a coffee shop or rent some space in an existing coffee shop

Put please don’t go and sign a lease for a shop and invest in a re-fit.

Paul
www.x7.com

Hi all,

Thanks for your help. I have been at college all day today (not doing business: I'm doing an Advanced Higher in Computers and networking)

I have been talking to a close friend about this situation and he thinks it could be interesting - although I am not sure how it could go in the long run I think that it could be interesting to start off with him.

RichC: I have decided that going to a Carboot sale would be the most realistic option whilst I am at college and it just so happens that there is a car boot AND market on the same grounds near my house (walking distance) So unfortunately me and my friend don't have any way of getting transport but we can transport the 'goods' with cases not a great idea but all that is possible at this time and it is only £10 so that's only £5/ea (a very realistic price)... before we do any of this actual selling though we are going to do some research around the town and at the library to see what the people say (I just hope they don't think we're trying to palm them off with a credit card or something)

As you are saying about selling things that I think may be worth selling... I still have A PC joystick, o2 Mobile sims, PC Software (worth about £1/ea) that I did'nt get shifted on ebay and wwe are going to hunt down some books - we've also thought about charity shops as a source for the beginning as you never know what you could come accross.

About the food idea I think this will only be possible when I have a physical shop - I have been thinking more into it and think that a Bookshop and Coffe house may be a great way to go selling hot and cold meals could entice people in to buy books (but this would have to be in the future when we have some sort of capital to start us off). I am going to draft a business plan as I go through the research but does anyone know where i can find free help about writing one up ?

I am really enthusiastic about this and do believe that it could be possible to build up the steps CarBooty, Market, Shop (Just need to prove this will work to our families so that we can get them to transport us to/from market).

Yeah Comspec the thing I like about buying books in an actual shop is that you can have a good search through and a good look at it before you buy it which can be a pleasurable experience. And as you say I have age and enthusiasm which will lead me to the ultimate prize (my dream basically)

Yeah Alec I am going to go through town doing research on this (I will need to let them know I'm not selling though as that could scare them off - It does annoy you when people hound you for credit cards so I can understand why they would take this attitude)

I could see about a bookclub I don't know if there is one but I'll find out from the library.

Would I actually be able to get old stock from libraries ? , thee arent any suitable coffee shops in the area that have room for an extra shop but my ultimate goal is to buy a Bookshop + Coffee house / snack bar

I have also thought of a few other Ideas for the store e.g. Used magazines, dvds cds etc that coul possibly earn extra income or would that seem like a messed up shop ?

Thanks again for all your help everyone I'll keep you all updated

DrBob

Hello Dr Bob
I must admit to being really pleased that your going to try the car boot sales as a way of starting out as safe method to explore your plans without causing any financial problems

The idea of researching your market before selling is excellent as i believe firmly the car boot idea will help tremendiously in clarifying your objectives further and might i suggest you treat it exactly as you would if it were investing in a shop etc!

estimate your stock worth
target markets
marketing
presentation of stock(make the stall look attractive...just like a shop window!
cash projections
profit margins targeted
reviews
and how will you re invest your earnings
in other words a simple business model and follow through

When you first wrote you mentioned your age....use it to your advantage!!!...you dont have large outgoongs in the form of a mortgage etc which frees up any capital you make to use towards your further goals and objectives.

I have a copy of the RBS business plan format which is a downloadable pdf file which ill look out now and post the link to the site below(its quite detailed but maybe good practice also

best of luck with it all and look forward to hearing how it all went

regards Rich

ps the food etc is a good idea and maybe a cheap wi fi point as a secondary earner???but do be careful when dealing with the food idea as the legistlation just gets tighter and tighter in this area but plenty free advice at your local envireomental health office so dont worry about it just needs some homework

hers the link to the rbs business plan(free pdf download at the bottom of the page)http://www.rbs.co.uk/Small_Business/Business_Plan_Software/default.htm

regards Rich C

Hi again

I have been at college today again - but tomorrow me and My friend who is going to help as a partner to the idea are going to do some research on foot in the town and at the library and see if we can find any really low cost profitable books - we're going to spend a set amount each to begin and see if we can have a profitable business afterwards. Whilst we are doing this we are going to draft up a business plan and work out all costs... Hopefully by this time next year it will be profitable and a proven earner as this is when I leave college and hopefully I could turn it into a profitable fulltime earner by which time I may be able to take it further and invest in a large amount of stock.

I have been thinking about ultimately owning a retail shop which will be great so this is what is giving me the drive to make the best o of this.. and as for a WiFi point this is a great idea as there is not one available in this town (or again the surrounding area)

I will keep you all updated on how it goes...

thanks so much everyone for your help.... goodluck in all your ventures

DrBob