Dragons Den

Originally posted by: Nicol
Hi There Bob,

First of all id like to congratulate you on what i think is a fantastic product, and secondly id like to say that i thought you more than stood your ground from what i seen last night on the show.

Aye, well... if only the BBC would have shown how the Dragons scattered in front of me, they tred to have their way with me, but I'm not easily intimidated and they saw that pretty quickly, I had them on the back foot for most of the 50 minutes I did with them during the original recording. But that's NOT how the show is supposed to go, so they aren't going to show that are they.

Seems to me the show is cheap for the BEEB, and has been getting the Ratings, so they're happy.

The Dragons get to massage their ego's and the prospects get trashed...

My concern is... that one day the arrogance of them all may well cost someone their lives one day.

I can see that someone who has a dream, a dream that they feel their whole life turns on, one they are devoted to, getting trashed on national TV.

Not everyone will be able to take that, and I can see someone topping themselves, due to it. How far have we come that the BBC stoops to this as supposed entertainment ? is more in common with the Romans watching folks suffer and thinking that as entertainment. I really do worry at what this show will cost someone at some point, am I the only one with that concern ?

Anyway... onwards and upwards...

Seems a great product to produce and im sure one day you will have a great sucess with it.

It's getting there, 8 years in R&D around 10,000 hours into it, and 200,000 quid to cover the Patents around the World. I've sold 2 Patents already, but of the 17 I still hold there's 3/4 of a Billion people in those Countries, if I can't make a buck out of them, then Ultra is no good...

Also i noticed you said you were already worth 4 million , what else have you been upto past and present to get to this stage.

Cor Blimey ! where do we start on that one.... emigrated in 1982 with my wife  and 9 year old son, to Canada, when we arrived there {sailed from Tilbury to Montreal, on the Stefan Batory} we got off the ship with 5 suit cases and 2000 quid... only to find the job I'd been recruited for didn't materialise, they were in the middle of a lengthy lock out, so no one was working...

We didn't even have a roof over our heads, but within 6 months I had found a good job and things started to get better, well until they tried to blow me up with 6 oz of C4 that is...

All in all though Canada was good for us, and that's where I made my money.

I had a couple of other Inventions that made decent money, but the BIG BREAK came when by serendipity I found myself trading directly with CK Perfumes Canada, selling their good into the grey market... what a time that was, from around 1995 to 2002. I was buying tractor trailer loads of CK products every month, on aveage 15-17 Tons a month ! a turn over of around $1 Million US$'s each month... hard to believe this dropped into this Wigin Lads lap...

So that was where most of my money came from... gave all that up 2 years ago though to give all my attention to Ultra, the potential for this product could make the money I made from grey marketing CK, look like pin money...

But more than that, it's the thrill of Inventing something that folks need, men have terrible shave days, no matter what blade they use... Ultra brings shaving out of the Dark Ages and into the 21st Century, and folks love it... check out the testimonials on www.moderngent.com  it's not my site, I don't have one, they are one of the web sites selling Ultra in the Untidy Kingdom...

Been busy since the show though, that's why I'm still here at 04:00 sigh... 53       e-mails and a few dozen phone calls, even on from a bloke in Lithuania ! he saw the show {don't know how} and wants to become a distributor in Lithuania !!!

Strange old World aint it...

That's it for me now, gotta get some sleep... I'll get back to the other folks posts  in the morning, if it isn't that already...

Canada Bob.

Thanks to both of you for your replies,
with regards to the pricing i mentioned earlier.. i have no idea how much a pack of razors cost, she gets the open chequebook and i get fed and shaved, it was just a first impression and i am sure the product will speak for itself. You clearly have a great product that you need to get into the marketplace. Is there no cosmetic company that will take you onboard? like Avon or a gents grooming shopping chain?
It seems bizarre that you have these products and yet have a website that is plastered with adsense?
Why not use that space on your pages to sell your products more effectively instead of 'click and gone'. With 4 million quid and £200K invested it is certainly unusual to have a website that could effectively be selling products from amazon.com. You might just as well open some other sites if you need the adsense revenue so badly.

Just my thoughts of course, i am sure your business plan is more structured than mine

Regards
James

JustOneUK.com
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Advertising Opportunity | Free Business Advertising | Desserts

Hi James

Thanks for your comments. There are ideas being actioned on reselling the Ultra range.

Regarding your comments on Adsense. This is a very good revenue stream. Having studied this for some time I take on board what you are saying. However, I have Amazon on other sites and to be perfectly honest, it is a waste of effort in my opinion. Google is by far the best, though I have had pointed out to me that there are certain ads that are of dubious product association. Still, that means someone has looked at them The £4m and £200k invested is down to Bob, not me, I'm nowhere near to those figures!

Just getting back to Adsense, after trying different ideas the method worked for the site in the fact that it nicely closed it off in the way that it is coded. However, the right hand side column I'm going to be replacing with product links (as on the home page) though I had done this previously. Thank you for bringing it to the front of my to do list. I would like to stress that Modern Gent is not just a shop, it is meant to be more of a magazine format so content is king.
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The Gent

http://www.moderngent.com

Hello Paul...

Thanks for giving us the other side of the story, very interesting. I've just read the article on your site too and that has some links to experiences from other contestants, again very useful.

The site isn't mine, I don't actually have one, the one you've seen is the moderngent one I expect, they have done up a profile of Ultra and a Bio of me.

I must admit that I like the series, it is addictive viewing, even though in my view the Dragons can be a bit harsh, damning and soul destroying at times, but I guess that's why they call them Dragons, as opposed to Business Angels. For me the stars of this show are always the contestants.

I hear you Paul and I agree it can be good entertainment, but I fear at what cost ? no everyone is able to take a broadside and still stay afloat. I've seen tougher times, but you still feel it when the BEEB take 50 minutes of original interview {part of which they say they won't use, I didn't wish to state my "wealth" not wanting the Tax man knocking at the front door while a Burglar is climbing in through the back door. But the BBC failed to respect what they'd said, and that tells me a lot about their lack of respect and how they are more concerned about Ratings than honesty. They put together 50 seconds to misrepresent me, and I've little doubt this is par for for their course, but its a sad day when we can't trust the BBC.

If you've been away from the British TV scene for a while, then you probably hadn't realised that shows where 'experts' put down young hopefuls are getting more and more popular, a sad state I know. Most recently with the music business audition shows (where middleaged 'gurus' in the music business will quite happily destroy the hopes and dreams of wannabe teen popstars after a gruelling audition, in a lot of cases bringing them to tears on prime time TV), which is a bad thing. Damon Albarn, of Blur/Gorillaz fame and a true music guru/innovator/entrepreneur, quite rightly said on last Friday's Jonathon Ross show: it's a rubbish part of our culture - the sooner we bin it the better.

To be honest I'd never seen the program, hadn't even applied to be on it, and was invited on by the staffers at BB Manchester who are converts to Ultra. Walked into a trap there I can tell you, but you live and learn, but this lesson will be too costly for someone, I can see that coming up. I almost feel an obligation to write formally to the BBC letting them know how dangerous it is humiliating folks on National TV, folks {like us all} with hopes a dreams, it isn't right to trash folks especially under the cover of supposedly hlping them, that's bad...

From what I saw of the channel 4 series 'make me a million', which followed 3 businesses for a year and assigned each business a mentor, this series didn't follow that route, which is a good thing. The gurus at the end of the show were polite, respectful and positive.

What is it with the UK, where folks with ideas are trashed rather than supported ? I don't know anywhere else in the World where this attitude prevails.

At one time we used to be proud of the inventiveness of Bits, now we'd rather crush folks on the altar of trash TV.

Anyway, best of luck with your business, and I'll definitely try your shaving cream.

         Drop me a line via www.moderngent they'll pass it on to me, and I'll ship some Ultra  out to you ASAP {we're presently pretty well sold out though}.

All the Best, Canada Bob.

 

Hello James...

I didn’t watch it last night - after a quite decent first series I quite agree with Paul that they seem to have gone all "pop idol", and can understand how you may have been misrepresented as in the eyes of the producers it doesn’t make ‘good’ TV unless there is conflict.

Yea, they took 50 minutes of interview and presented me in the worst possible light, even though the comment they focused on {aimed purely to discredit me} was subject to agree confidentiality. I don't know how the BBC can stoop this low, simply to get Ratings.

This strikes me as very odd, as there is no need to dumb down a programme that is presumably pitched at a business audience and not MTV viewers. I haven’t seen anything for a long while that fairly represents business on TV, they just seem to pick the worst possible cases in the hope there will be some tantrums along the way. Real business tends to be a lot more interesting.

It's the state of the Nation now James, at one time we used to be proud of the inventiveness of Brits, now we'd rather see people's downfall. It's the same with the News, folks are fascinated with looking at bomb {or other} victims, rather than beingshocked or outraged, what has happened to us as a Nation !

The only good thing I think about it is that is does quite squarely show that an idea is nothing without someone competent enough to deliver it effectively. It certainly doesnt sound as if you are struggling on that front.

Yep, but what happens to the quiet guy who comes up with a great idea, I'd bet it will stay in his shed, there's  no incentive for anyone to go on national TV just to be humiliated. Your right regarding me, I've stood my ground against more than these puffed up dragons can throw at me, but I do fear they'll finish someone off.

Canada Bob.

Hello James...

I didn’t watch it last night - after a quite decent first series I quite agree with Paul that they seem to have gone all "pop idol", and can understand how you may have been misrepresented as in the eyes of the producers it doesn’t make ‘good’ TV unless there is conflict.

Aye, it's more than a bit galling when they take 50 seconds from a 50 minute interview and then put it together in such a way that their only intent was to discredit me. To add to me chagrin the quote they used was brought up after I'd stopped to ask for a "time out", I didn't want to speak of my "wealth" as I didn't thing it was relevant. But they persuaded me tell the Dragons "just so that they will know you've already been successful, we won't include it in the program" !

Well what does that say about the integrity of the folks who now work for the BBC. The producers will do anything to get Ratings for the show, and in turn that enhances their careers, then this type of person heads for the top, and those left behind can plainly see where they are going wrong.

This strikes me as very odd, as there is no need to dumb down a programme that is presumably pitched at a business audience and not MTV viewers. I haven’t seen anything for a long while that fairly represents business on TV, they just seem to pick the worst possible cases in the hope there will be some tantrums along the way. Real business tends to be a lot more interesting.

It's the state of the nation now James, folks are fascinated to see the victims of bombings rather than being shocked or outraged at what they see. At one time we used to be proud of the inventions that us Brits came up with, now we'd rather see someone's downfall, what does that say for us, sigh.

The only good thing I think about it is that is does quite squarely show that an idea is nothing without someone competent enough to deliver it effectively. It certainly doesnt sound as if you are struggling on that front.

Well, I have stood my ground {and beaten} greater foes than these puffed up dragons, but I really do fear that they will push someone over the edge.

There a lot of folks who have a dream something that holds their hopes together, and in their innocence finish up being humiliated on national TV, that could be more than some are able to take, don't the Dragons or the BEEB ever even consider that ?

Canada Bob.

Originally posted by: justoneuk
wow Paul , you watch too much TV

thanks for the feedback Canada B,(if you ever come back)
£10 seems a bit steep for a single can of shaving lubricant, but then i guess i should get out and go shopping a little more often. What we all want to know (being web related) is how much traffic and sales this has created overnight for your business

thanks and good luck with your product
James
JustOneUK.com

James, a tenner is the introductory offer price, pre-market launch if you like. The artwork and packaging has taken a long time to finalise. The dispenser used is an airless value pump system (never used for a shaving cream). Taking into consideration a can of gel costs £3? (A lot of air in there, along with the chemicals, check out the ingredients), an aftershave/balm/moisturiser anything from the same amount upwards. Mach 3 blades are almost a tenner for an eight pack. With Ultra you get the shaving cream/moisturiser (which protects your skin all day long) and your blades will last anything up to ten times longer. Apart from that there are no parabens (which has been linked to cancer) and a lot of testimonials praising other benefits of the formulation. That is why Bob has spent so long refining the base formula and patenting it worldwide.
Getting back to the second part of your question, the airing - if you can call it that - didn't increase traffic/sales as much as if the product had been mentioned.

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The Gent

http://www.moderngent.com

Hello James...

thanks for the feedback Canada B,(if you ever come back)

You're welcome as us Canadians say, grin...

£10 seems a bit steep for a single can of shaving lubricant, but then i guess i should get out and go shopping a little more often.

The price is driven by the ingredients I use James, Ultra isbased on Food Grade Ingredients, not on the cheap and nasty petroleum by-products or worse still the {dead} animal extracts {grease, fats and tallows} used by the Multi Nationals.

I wouldn't use a petroleum on my skin, as engineers we are told to keep it off our skin. There's no way I would use an animal by product, they present a potential risk of carrying a prion disease, like BSE etc, but it doesn't stop the Big Names selling creams that contain these risky ingredients.

Never mind the BBC, check out if what you have in the house now has parabens in it, I'll guarantee you that you've all been exposed to them !

Then do a Google for "EWG SKIN DEEP" to find a search engine that will tell you all about the products that you're using, and go right down to each element or ingredient in them.

What I'm trying to say is, Ultra Shave {and the other creams that I have now formulated} are all Ultra Safe, they don't contain any carcinogens, and are based solely on Food Grade Ingredients. You could safely eat the stuff that I make, let alone feel safe using it on your skin. But there's a price to pay for this, I know I have the best products on the market, it's just that I can't make them the cheapest on the market.

Having said that though James, the 100 mls of Ultra will last 66 days, as the dispenser gives out exactly 1.5 mls each time, so a tenner aint a lot spead {pun again intended}, grin, over 2 months.

Add to that blades last up to 8 weeks, and with the price of disposables now, you can actually save money by using Ultra, but the main benefit is the incredibly comfortable shave that you get, no razoe rash, no razor burn, no cutting or nicking, just an enjoyable shave with the addition of a great moisturiser thrown in.

Tell you what, this is open to ALL of you, I'll speak to www.moderngent.com and ask them to ship out a full sized, 100 mls of Ultra, to any of you that request it, lts say in the next 7 days, from now... no obligation at all...

To the Ladies out there, get one, and compare it to any skin conditioner or moisturizer that you've ever used, this stuff really does work, and I have University Research reports to tell you why it works as well as it does.

One of my products "Skin Deep" based very closely to the shaving cream, is selling in Europe for 99.95 Euro's mind you, it costs me £26 for the ingredients and the ratio of the ingredients that I use in Skin Deep.

Skin Deep was developed after we noticed how soft mens skin was beoming just by using the shaving cream, so I enhanced the formula and now I honestly believe there's nothing to compare to it, at any price.

If you take me up on these offers, be sure to tell the folks at modern gent that the offer has come diretly from me, I know I'll et it in the neck from them, but it's my way of saying Thanks to you guys for the decent comments and support you have given me re DD.

What we all want to know (being web related) is how much traffic and sales this has created overnight for your business

You'll hav to ask modern gent that, it's way over my head, but I've had over 60 e-mails {all of them either supprtive or enquiries about the product{ and the phones been ringing orf the hook all day...

thanks and good luck with your product

Thanks for your time and consideration James.

Canada Bob.

Originally posted by: swiftbrook

Bob,

I will be one of the many people who have checked out your web site as a result of your TV appearance. Just want to say that you have what looks like a great product and you clearly have a great deal of drive.

As a constructive comment I would like to mention that I don't think your web site does your product justice, just seems to have a bit of everything and not enough of one thing. I would have thought that a site selling a range (the 'Ultra' range?) men’s grooming products would have been more suitable.

www.swiftbrook.com
IT Solutions & Professional Services

Dear Martin
Great that you have taken the time to read the content on the site. I am probably as enthusiastic about Ultra as Bob, and you know what it's like when you believe in a product.
Yes, there is an Ultra range coming.
Modern Gent is for innovative and ingenious products/design. My question was "Why be just another grooming products for sale website when there are so many?"
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The Gent

http://www.moderngent.com

Hello Martin...

I will be one of the many people who have checked out your web site as a result of your TV appearance. Just want to say that you have what looks like a great product and you clearly have a great deal of drive.

Thanks for your comments above Martin, I guess that right now us Wigin Lads have a star shining over us, Warriors on and off the field, grin...

I would have thought that a site selling a range (the 'Ultra' range?) men’s grooming products would have been more suitable.

Ultra Shave doesn't just provide a cool, close comfortable shave, it also moisturises the skin, and once I noticed what a good job it does at that I reworked the formulations, and produced a fabulous moisturiser and skin conditioner. "Skin Deep" as it is known is being test marketed in France & Germany, and is selling like hot cakes for 99.95 Euro.

Other than that I'm close to bringing a couple of other products into the market, including...

A Ladies Moisturiser.

A Ladies Skin Conditioner.

An anti stretch mark cream.

An SPF 15 & SPF 30 creams that also moisturise.

A Bug repellent.

And a couple more, including a version of the "Float Pack" cream that I make for the US, Canadian & British Forces in Iraq & Afghanistan.

This Multi Purpose cream is a shave cream, then applied after shaving works as a Sun Blocker whilst also moisturising the skin, and at the same time repelling mosquitoes and other flying bugs.

It's a peasure for me to do my bit for the lads out there, I'm not for or against why they are there, but as long as they are there I'll do my bit to make life a little bit better for them.

So all in all, I expect to have 6 or 7 products {all "related"} on the market within 6 months.

All said and done....top product and well done for taking on the Dragons Den and giving as good as you got.

Thanks Martin, I'm sure they learned they aren't the only ones who can breathe fire, but that won't get aired, it don't fit the bill...

Hey, drop a line to modern gent, please feel free to try Ultra out...

Canada Bob.

 

Hello Jonny...

Sorry but I still don't understand why you applied to go on Dragon's Den when you claim you are worth £4million??

Aye, well, here's the sting in the tail/tale.

I didn't apply to go on the show, I'd never even heard of it, I've spent much of the last 23 years in Canada, and just a few weeks in the UK during 2004.

One of the staffers that I know at BBC Manchester, one of the many there who is a regular user of Ultra, phone me up and said... "why don't you come on Dragons Den, Ultra is perfect for the show", {then explaining what it was all about} he continued "you might now get a Dragon on board, but 3 Million people will see the product, and many of those who go on the show get linked up with someone who's been watching the show",  so innocently, on I went.

Well done on getting through and all that but it all strikes me as potentially a publicity stunt for your product?

Sure there's that element to it Jonny, let's be fair...

The BEEB get a cheap show.

The Dragons get to massage their ego's

So it's fair {and recognised by the BEEB} that the participants get publicity / exposure from the show, I think that could be a fair balance, but really it's a slaughter house, with worse to come I fear... I'll forecast that some poor sod tops themselves after being humiliated on the show...

Won't be me, I've stood up and faced more vicious folks then these puffed up dragons {check that story out on  Google, do a search for "Norburn Fleet}.

I'm and old war horse, and I can stand my ground with that lot, and in fact put them on the back foot {as I did}, but that's not what they want to show is it, so you won't see it, if and when it happens.

Even your posts on this forum read like a press release promoting yourself.

Now now, nothing wrong with promoting what you believe in, and I strongly believe in what I've managed to achieve with Ultra, done something that the Multi Nationals couldn't do, or didn't want to do {make a disposable blade last up to 8 weeks} !

Not saying there is anything wrong with that of course.......

No, I hear you Jonny, no offence taken, and none meant...

The point I'd like to make is, I wasn't looking for money, I have lots of my own, I was looking for a running mate with the expertise and contact in the UK that I don't have.

I don't like to take on "hired hands" who are far more interested in paying their mortgage out of me, rather than being able to help me get Ultra into the UK market.

It's getting there though, almost under its own steam, Harrods and a lot more are interested in taing Ultra on, it's just a matter of time, but at 58 who knows how much of that I might have, sigh.

In 2003 I took myself and 9 of the local lads to Las Vegas for 5 days, treated them like Royalty, only to have one of them say...

"You have more money thn sense"

i thought about that for a while, and then said, Thank God your right, who would care to be 58 and have less moey than sense, or 38 if it comes to that, I'd bet most folks have more money than sense, be gawd help them if they didn't... Hope that you read the intended sardonic humour intended in that... yet it's something to think about...

I'd buy your surf boards, but at 58 I fear those days are gorn for me, grin.

Lucky to ride a bike at my age..

Tell you what, any of you that would like to try Ultra out, Free that is, 'cause I don't sell ANYTHING, my distributor does all that, to 3 web sites, and to barbers etc etc etc all over the UK and into the US now, but if any of you would like to try it, or for the Ladies in her, a sample of "Skin Deep" selling for 99.95 Euro for a 50 ml tub, just drop me a line to... robert01942@hotmail.com and I'll ship it out to you, no obligation at all.

Canada Bob.

where are you based Bob?

James
Free Business Advertising
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Hi Canada Bob

Congratulation for your impressive achievement, your inventions are great and I just couldn’t understand the dragons on that night. Anyway you held your ground and I believe you will do even better with the Ultra Shaving Cream.

As an inventor, have you ever been approached by other inventors seeking your support etc because I am an inventor currently waiting for the prototypes to be finalized and I would consider approaching a successful inventor like yourself for support rather than approach the dragons.

Thanks and all the best.

Hello rr...

Thanks for your kind comments, valued and appreciated...

I just wish folks could have seen how I had the Dragons on the back foot, once I was certain of their abusive attitude it didn't take me long to wade into them, in a reasonable way, just trading punches with them, but I'll back my wit against the lot of them, anyday.

No doubt in my mind that others have done the same, showing that isn't what the program is all about though. I honestly think that the core motive is to humiliate folks rather than give serious consideration to what they are presenting, and that's a shame.

We used to be proud of the inventiveness of us Brits, now we have dumbed down to the point where folks aren't able to think things through, finding it easier to discredit folks, and have a laugh at their expense, {sounds more like the Fall of the Roman Empire to me, than when "we owned all the pink bits"}.

Dragons Den could have been a great platform for folks with new ideas, it could have helped them, and given inspiration to folks watching the show. Not now though, the majority of inventors or folks with good business ideas will shy away {to say the least} from the eye rolling, smart a** comments of these puffed up mutants.

I know folks will say "it's only TV" and these days with the average attention span being measured in seconds, not even minutes, let alone hours, it indicates the state of the nation.

It didn't take me long to show the Dragons they weren't the only ones who can breathe fire, but all that's on the cutting room floor now...

Anyway, Inventors hey... there's a rare breed, should be a protected species in my book, there's enough folks preying on them, starting at Patent Lawyers and working right through the folks who would rip off your invention, and the so called "Angels" who want the meat {off any viable product} while you are left with the bones to chew on...

It's a tough track to win on, but I've had enough savvy to make all my inventions pay me a decent {for that read a good amount} of money, since my first one a  golf / cricket / tennis / socer / baseball / hockey practice net that catches and holds in place {say} a golf ball zipping through the air at 200ft/sec.

I took Patents on this in 1978, in 26 Countries {big mistake}, and 27 years later, even though the Patents are all obsolete the net is still being made and sold around the world.

After that, I had a quiet spell, but the next one was when I {re}invented the night watchmans brazier, and gave folks in Canada a way to keep warm by burning {pelletized}saw dust, 45,000 BTU per hour for about 5 shillings per hour, showing me age there, grin...

Check out... http://www.pellet.org/basket.html 

Other than that I was a founder member of the Nova Scotia Inventors Society years ago, that's a real good way to learn from the experience of other inventors, so all in all I've learned the ropes {partly from being on them from time to time, grin}.

Inventions hey, it's a Minefield, but a some folks manage to find their way through it.

Feel free to drop me a pvt e-mail, and we'll swap phone numbers, any way I can help you, I will... no problem...

Canada Bob.