Hi
Help! I'm looking for some advise and I hope there are people out there who can share their knowledge and experience.
I am chasing (as so many are) the Holy Grail of getting my site to appear in the organic listings for Google and indeed any search engines at all. We've been going now for 5 months and business is good and getting better but I rely on Adwords to drive traffic to my site which costs me (and I have to cap this) over £1000 a month. In order to take the business forward I have to get out of this trap and get the site to pop up organically. And this is the tricky bit!
Trying to get to the bottom of this dark art of SEO is a nightmare. I have paid one company £1500 to optimize my site which I am told I now have to wait 6-12 weeks for any results and in the meantime I am contacted by every other SEO company to tell me my site is not optimized at all and if I use them I'll see results in a week. It's a nightmare! Who do you believe? I am told that there are many short term solutions to getting yourself to the top of the search results but these will only backfire in the long term and could result in the those devilish little spiders banning your site leaving you completely high and dry. But I can't afford to wait much longer.
So, if anyone knows whether there is a regulatory body for SEO companies or a personal recommendation or even if someone can tell me to relax and wait for things to happen naturally - I would be very grateful.
If you know about this kind of stuff - take a look at what we do - we allow people to create there own contemporary canvas art on line. Even if you don't have a look anyway - it's addictive fun!!
Thanks in anticipation and confusion...
Phil Spurr
www.thisisperfect.co.uk
RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
GraemeKerr | 04/10/2005 04:28 PM
Phil,
You are by no means the only person who is confused by this issue, and you won't be the last. I'll place my cards on the table, we are a marketing company that specialises in search engine optimisation and internet marketing, amongst other disciplines. I will however tell you the truth, as there are too many companies in this industry who will do otherwise.
Firstly, £1,000 a month on Google adwords is a lot of money, who runs the campaign for you, do you do this yourself or do you hire a company to do it for you? Perhaps you are targetting the incorrect keywords or are just paying too much per click! I'm sure there are many ways to reduce this cost.
Secondly, i'm sorry to say but £1,500 to optimise an existing website is a lot of money. Did they give you a detailed report outlining the changes that needed to be made etc before they started? They are correct in what they say however that it can take 6-12 weeks at least to see results, even longer considering your site is relatively new and also depending on what industry your in. There is no way you can get a good listing in a week, any company that tells you otherwise are con-men.
There are many ways to get a quicker listing, but as you rightly say, many of them will get you blacklisted by the search engines.
If you want, just for your peace of mind, we could have a quick look at your site and give you a report to let you know what has and hasn't been done for free. We do this as a matter of course for any potential client and i would be happy to help you out.
To give you an example of what we offer clients, we charge a minimal fee to adapt a website to be more search engine friendly and then charge a monthly promotional fee, involving promotion and link building of your site throughout the month. Clients can also get us to manage any pay-per-click campaigns they have. We provide monthly reports analysing web performance for the client so they can see the improvements. Generally this covers a 6 month period but a few clients have kept us on, on a perminant basis. The feedback we have had has been very good using this method as company's can spread the cost of a 6 month period and they can see the improvements over the months rather than paying up front.
If you would like us to at least provide you with the free report please contact me.
Regards,
Graeme
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G8 Marketing - www.g8marketing.co.uk
Client examples:
Audits Unlimited - Independent utility consultants - www.auditsunlimited.co.uk
Cosmopolitan Hotels - 3 star group in Glasgow - www.cosmopolitan-hotels.com
AC Milan Junior Camps in the UK, France and Spain
McCarthy Recruitment - www.mccarthyrecruitment.com
RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
michaelassociates | 04/10/2005 04:35 PM
Hi Phil,
I have just posted to your other posting.
Graeme, is correct here, £1500.00 is alot of money to spend on optimising your site and you do have to think ever so carefully in what keywords you want to target. Just like with offline marketing you can not just advertise here and there.
Are your keywords correct and accurate to who you want to be seen.
One reason why you may be spending so much is because you are using the wrong keywords/phrases and visitors are finding and clicking on you by fault, thus increasing your spenditure.
We here at Michael Associates, new media solutions, also specialise in SEO along with the other services listed at the bottom.
If you do need a help, drop me a line and i'll be happy to help.
Thanks,
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Michael Associates, new media solutions
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your website, your business, your fortune
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w: www.michaelassociates.co.uk
e: info@michaelassociates.co.uk
websites . e-commerce . hosting . domain names . graphic design . print . multi-media . animation . marketing
RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
waparesult | 05/10/2005 07:56 PM
phil,
I am not one of the above, I run my own website and have been through the dilema you are in, here are things I have learned over the last couple of years:-
I am not an expert on your products so these are just generic comments
£1000 a month is way too much, you are giving away money!!! Sorry
Linking is a good way to get noticed
Change your google adwords every time you wish to promote a specific product. and look at the stats you get back.
Sorry to the people above, I know you are all very experienced and offer a good service, but all they are selling you is something you can do yourself with a bit of time, if you do not have the time pay them.
Your product looks good, what other marketing activities are you doing off-line? I forgot his name, but there is a young chap who makes jam on another forum, and he has been in national newspapers etc....good free marketing.
Have you thought about getting in touch with Urban Splash / Barrat Homes / and all the others and getting a picture in each of their showhomes with a simple card underneath letting them know where to get it? Great PR and attracting the people you are after.
What about getting in touch with www.primary-times.co.uk they do the school magazines and are always featuring arty type stuff, you may get a article?
There are loads more, like write to Richard and Judy or Fern and Philip, why not get in touch with the BBC / ITV makeover shows offer them your product to feature?
I hope this helps and remember internet only marketing is not always the way forward
Good Luck
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Martin Hunt
RE: RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
philspurr | 06/10/2005 11:25 AM
Thanks Martin
All the things you mention are good things. I can't believe how hard it is to get PR tho - have tried everything and so far, my PR portfolio is looking a bit thin! You are right, internet marketing is only one piece of the puzzle and maybe I'm focussing too much attention on it. Not enough hours in the day!!!
Google adwords - I am paying .20p per hit to get ranked between 2-5, if I drop the price per click I'll drop down the listings. Am I doing something wrong as we consistently reach our pre determined daily limit??
Phil
RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
michaelassociates | 06/10/2005 11:30 AM
Hi Phil,
Sounds like you are doing the right thing with the Adwords.
Have you set a daily or monthly limit? This might be one reasons why you are spending alot.
You need to bear in mind that the Internet is just another marketing tool and you still need to work on traditional marketing methods.
Alot of people loose sight and think that the Internet is the gold mine to success.
As a new media agency we have complete marketing fulfilment lifecycle and work both online and offline together with the client to reach their market goals.
------------------------
Michael Associates, new media solutions
-------------------------------------------------
your website, your business, your fortune
-------------------------------------------------
w: www.michaelassociates.co.uk
e: info@michaelassociates.co.uk
websites . e-commerce . hosting . domain names . graphic design . print . multi-media . animation . marketing
RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
James Smith | 06/10/2005 02:16 PM
Just as a counter blast I have two clients who spend several thousand a WEEK on google adwords. They both return about £100 for every £35 they put in and have rather profitable businesses.
I don’t think its really a question of how much per month is too much, its a question of whether each visitor is (on average) making you money or losing you money.
Each visitor surely has the same probability [baring some nifty analysis of time of day/day of week spending habits] of becoming a paying customer whether it is in your first or last click through of the day.
ie it either works for you (and therefore you shouldn’t set or limit) or it doesn’t work and therefore either you shouldn’t do it at all, or should lower your click through value until it is cost effective.
In terms of PR - I would strongly suggest you get a professional to help you with it, they have far better results than an amateur at getting your story placed successfully.
hope that help,
Regards,
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James Smith
Chartered Accountant
www.jamesesmith.co.uk
01235 536 773
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Your indispensable guide to Small Business Bookkeeping, Self-Assessment & VAT
RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
afam | 06/10/2005 02:27 PM
Please, please, please kindly focus less on the search engines and focus more on how to make your products and services better for your clients and potential clients.
Then look for targetted audience for your services, a lot of companies spend (read waste) money on ineffective advertising.
Yes, people use search engines to locate businesses but is your business one with a global market?
Localized advertising via newspaper classifieds, directory listing, radio and tv adverts will do in this regard.
Google will never buy from you, so why focus a lot of attention on them?
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Afam Nnaji
Just Web Services.
http://www.justwebservices.com">href="http://www.justwebservices.com">http://www.justwebservices.com
RE: RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
GraemeKerr | 06/10/2005 04:49 PM
Sorry Afam,
I don't agree with what you have said. People don't just use search engines to look for products or services on a global basis! Even when i'm looking for something in my own city i search for it in the search engines first.
I'm afraid advertising in newspapers is very hit and miss, and if your talking about radio or TV adverts you better have a larger budget than he is currently spending!!
SEO, although quite expensive initially is by far the most cost effective solution in the long-run. For example, our services would cost Phil less than half the amount he spends on Google Adwords and in the long-run once a good position is reached he could cut back even further for us to just maintain the position. Its by far the most cost effective method.
Graeme
------------------------
G8 Marketing - www.g8marketing.co.uk
Client examples:
Audits Unlimited - Independent utility consultants - www.auditsunlimited.co.uk
Cosmopolitan Hotels - 3 star group in Glasgow - www.cosmopolitan-hotels.com
AC Milan Junior Camps in the UK, France and Spain
McCarthy Recruitment - www.mccarthyrecruitment.com
RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
afam | 06/10/2005 05:44 PM
Hi Graeme,
Internet marketing and advertising is just a channel (out os several) of getting one's products and services out to potential clients, so concentrating a lot of effort on that alone is not only wrong but also does not make sense because to begin with not everyone uses the net to look for items to buy in the first place.
Again, radio and tv advertisements needn't be too expensive, we have cheap radio jingles and tv adverts that business owners are simply not aware of because a lot of people believe that they are way too expensive.
Agreed that the web remains the cheapest channel for marketing and advertising but what happens to the people that do not use the net? Forget them? Certainly no.
No doubt your services will be cheaper than what Phil has been using but that is not the point I am making, remember that I do not offer either a complimentary or competing product or service so my advice is as objective as it can get.
Thanks for your time.
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Afam Nnaji
Just Web Services.
http://www.justwebservices.com">href="http://www.justwebservices.com">http://www.justwebservices.com
RE: RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
Anglo-Sino | 06/10/2005 05:57 PM
I looked recently ad Google adwords but soon decided against it and have decided on using the traditional method....local/regional business section in the newspaper. For my business we are fairly fortunate as we have a fairly broad product offering but my feeling on pay per click is you have a good deal of people who are bored and click more out of curiosity than real interest. In a paper people will only read if they are interested and those reading the business pages are generally interested in business. I could be wrong and wish I had gone for Google etc but only time will tell.
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Your Gateway to Asia - Global procurement services.
www.anglosino.co.uk
RE: Ditching Google adwords!!
sindimatrix | 06/10/2005 07:53 PM
With that kind of money you could have started your own affilite program you dont have to pay until you sell you just have to join an affilliate program management company the no1 in the market is www.cj.com the second player in the market is www.clixgalore.com/uk they are all free to join as I said before you only pay out commision out when people sell your items the rate of commission is deternined by you the on average merachant usually pay 5-30% per sale this is the most effective way of selling on line
you can also use self search engine optimazation sites no 1 in the market being www.overture.com or www.miva.com your position is determined by the amount of money you are willing to spend they both got a keyword tool which enables to know how many people searched for the items you are selling thus helping you to compile keywords yourself had you used the above methods you could have returned you investment 20 times easy I also got a ebook wich teaches you how to use google adwords effectively information inside the information is worth over £500 Ill thrrow it your way for just £40 if you want it e-mail me at at tmasindi@ntlworld.com
