Babel started this topic @ 18:15 on 21/06/2004
Is there a way of getting a bank manager that isn't in your local area & understands the basics of ecommerce ?
Reason I ask it that I've been to 2 local banks to talk about the 'possibility' of opening business accounts with them.
At both interviews I spent a good part of an hour having to explain the basics of how it is possible to make money via a website - i.e how search engines work, what affiliate marketing is, how to advertise, setting up a merchant account etc. etc.
One of them commented 'I'd never buy anything on the internet, and I work in a Bank...' (this was said, when I explained about the importance of accepting credit cards via a merchant account to make sales, rather then 'eskro type' services that people have to join before they can buy a product)she also 'turned her nose up' when I mentioned internet banking.
The other lady offered me a creditcard if I went to their bank & seemed to understand abit more although it was 'all new to her'
My point is, where on earth can I get a bank manager that has a postive attitude towards e-commerce ? I realise that not all people are internet friendly, but my business isn't to convert skeptics to belivers, I'm targetting existing internet buyers.
Do they have this problem in London ? I'd go there to see my bank manger (even though it's 300 or so miles away) if it ment I'd beable to get on with the business of business !
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
kermey | 21/06/2004 06:23 PM
Why not explain that your an internet based company when you book the appointment and ask for someone with some knowledge of the net.
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Simon Meech
http://www.hardwiredesign.co.uk
http://www.kermey.co.uk
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Simon Meech
http://www.startups.co.uk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2990 - Startups Web Design offer!
http://www.hardwiredesign.co.uk
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
Babel | 21/06/2004 07:17 PM
They don't have anyone with internet experience (I use these banks on a personal basis - they phone up 'head office' alot. How would I ask them for an 'outsider'to come in (from their Company) that does have the right expertise, without sounding patronising ?
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
afam | 21/06/2004 08:16 PM
I guess the world is really a small place. This problem is every where.
My conclusion is that management positions are being occupied by people who are too comfortable with the way things are and are very highly resistant to change especially when there is this fear of the unknown.
Out of ignorance some will dismiss what they would probably want to learn about.
Keep looking, you may be lucky but they are very few out there.
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Afam Nnaji
Just Web Services.
http://www.justwebservices.com">href="http://www.justwebservices.com">http://www.justwebservices.com
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
James Smith | 21/06/2004 10:37 PM
Question:
Do you actually need to talk to your bank manager?
I have never spoken to mine and don’t intend to waste my time doing so.
Normally the only time you will say a word to them is in the initial interview which tends to be more about them selling overpriced services to you than for your benefit unless you are pitching a business plan where you need to borrow lots of cash.
Generally speaking you won’t get a merchant account until you have some company credit history, so you are pretty much stuck with worldpay for the first 12 months unless you strike very lucky.
If you do need to borrow, then just try other braches of the same bank the service levels are very variable between branches. A lot of bank managers are completely useless IMHO it can take some shopping around to find one that isn’t wet behind the ears.
If you don’t need to borrow, just set an account up on the phone with someone like the abbey national postal account and don’t bother to go in to branches.
As you can see I don’t like banks much, I find they are rarely helpful when you really need them and their products are generally expensive.
And I wouldn’t worry one iota about demanding proper service - if they cant answer your question ask them for someone who can - they are providing the service to you the customer. Most banks have a few competent members of staff tucked away if you stamp your heels a little bit and threaten to take your business elsewhere. Although they may like to pretend otherwise it is fairly easy to open an account so long as you don’t have CCJ's against you. Dont just go where your personanl account is.
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James Smith
Chartered Accountant
www.jamesesmith.co.uk
01235 536 773
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Your indispensable guide to Small Business Bookkeeping, Self-Assessment & VAT
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
LTA | 21/06/2004 11:29 PM
Banks? BANKS?? BANKS!!!!! Don't get me going :-)
James is right. Worked in IT for 20+ years for many of the major UK (and global) banks and they are so "comfy" earning(??) their profit's they don't give a.... well, you get my drift!
I'm actually amazed (and would therefore doubt) that you got to see a bank MANAGER at all. Maybe their business advisor? Long gone are the days when you could have a chat with a bank manager (mind you, even then they looked down their nose at you!). And as for any "decision" at branch level - forget it.
My own personal experience (discussed on this board a few months ago) was pure frustration, and total lack of help. I was "lucky" in that the proper business advisor was on long term sick and came back just before I gave up because the "temporary assistant" was a total and utter joke. He seemed to fill his time up during the day, WASTING my time. Just produce this business plan, P&L forecast etc.
Anwyway, I called their bluff. Put my £25k up and told them to match it - LUCKILY, as mentioned, the helpful BA was back and it went through. Had that not been the case - then god only knows!
As James say's - try, try, try and try again, and then a bit more. If YOU believe enough and are prepared to take the risk, then just keep going. Borrow the money from anywhere. If your numbers add up it will be the best thing you ever did. We live life on the edge most weeks, BUT that's far better than being BORED and CONTROLLED by brainless buffoons climbing the UK "management" ladder today :-)
Trust me - put some money up and you're half way there - but then the banks starting screwing YOU for every charge possible - you can't win :-(
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Kind Regards,
Martin @ LTA Leisure Ltd
enquiries@lta-leisure.co.uk
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
Clementine | 22/06/2004 08:23 AM
Babel,
Preparing information and attending meetings will get the best results if you tailor the information to the target audience.
If your bank manager doesn't understand (or doesn't want to understand) then you'll be banging your head on a brick wall. You need to tailor the information for them. If you provide a plan that shows nice numbers on it you will probably have more chance for success. Basically tell them where this business will go and don't focus too much on how it's going to get there. The details will be there no doubt, and you will be aiming for a merchant account. But if you focus too much on an aspect of the business the 'suits' don't understand then they will just glaze over and become unresponsive.
Change your tactics and you may have better luck.
Clem.
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
Geoff Westgarth | 22/06/2004 08:33 AM
It's worse than that Jim - he's dead!
I bank with Lloyds TSB. There is no facility to even communicate with my business manager by email. I can't even talk to her on the 'phone without telling the call centre what colour toilet roll I use first.
Isn't it interesting that these are the same organisations who assure us that their customers (us - lest we forget)don't want to deal with those expensive humans in actual real banks. No no....we want to deal with ATMs and over the internet!
I don't recollect being asked - do you?
Geoff
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Geoff Westgarth
Practical Business
Tel 01489 786602
email: geoffwestgarth@practical-business.co.uk
Web: www.practical-business.co.uk
Web: www.attitudepromotions.co.uk
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
seiretto | 22/06/2004 02:30 PM
Babel,
May I take this opportunity to apologise for the pathetic response you have received from the banks, why am I apologising, because they will NOT. They do not know any better.
Try the Abbey, Free Business Internet banking and you should be able to apply online [
]
Here is a thread discussing them:
http://www.startups.co.uk/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2589
I personally hate the short minded technophobes you often find in banks. Quite often they have no idea of running a business as within their little role at the bank constrains them to the organisations' throttling procedures.
All the best
Dave Walker - MD, Seiretto Ltd, Est 1996.
http://www.seiretto.com Business UK Web Hosting
BTW: thats probably the best post afam has ever made!
And I actually agree with him here (unlike the majority of his small snipes)
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Dave Walker - Seiretto Ltd (est 1996)
UK website hosting | PHP hosting | UK Linux Managed Servers | UK Windows Managed Servers
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
Babel | 24/06/2004 01:31 AM
Thanks for the replies
I guess it is just 'one of those things' & the advertising is always screaming out 'we know all about the internet....we are here to assist new business etc. I guess I am going to have to try & get some where without a business loan....I can see why people set up 'off shore businesses'now!
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
LTA | 24/06/2004 10:44 AM
Hi Babel,
The thing we found when "shopping around the banks" was that a personal loan could be obtained far easier and at sometimes a better rate than a bank loan (and 2 of our visits to banks ended up with the bank suggesting that a PL was an option, as did BusinessLink). Okay you have to give a personal undertaking to not use it for business purposes (and how would they know?) and is is a secured loan, but then again most banks want "security" in a charge on your home, so whats the difference??
The PL is far easier than spending the (often wasted) time talking to the banks - if your idea is going to work, you'll pay the money back anyway, and if not whether you owe it to a bank as a business loan, or to a loan Co. as a personal loan, they'll still want it back!
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Kind Regards,
Martin @ LTA Leisure Ltd
enquiries@lta-leisure.co.uk
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
James Smith | 24/06/2004 11:56 AM
I agree with martin, business bank loans should be a long way down your list, personal loans are fairly easy to get if your credit rating is ok, and you don’t have to spend hours polishing a business plan.
In terms of sources of funds I would go in this sort of order:
1. Personal savings
2. Short term personal loan
3. Re-mortgage (often a lot cheaper than 2, but only if you pay it off quickly)
4. Borrow from family(and friends that you don’t mind losing!)
5. Business loan
6. Equity business partner, business angel etc
Broadly speaking you are going to have to match whatever the banks give you as a business loan with personally generated funds, so bear that in mind when planning your venture.
Regards,
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James Smith
Chartered Accountant
www.jamesesmith.co.uk
01235 536 773
---------------------------
Your indispensable guide to Small Business Bookkeeping, Self-Assessment & VAT
RE: Bank Managers & internet basics:(
Clementine | 24/06/2004 05:19 PM
I have made various comments about banks in the past - some good some bad.
I have now changed my mind - I HATE ALL BANKS. There, i've said it.
I need some extra funding and have money to invest in my business personally but need the banks to come on board and match me. Tried calling various banks to arrange meetings so I could get comparisons between the various banks and who would do what for me. Here's how it goes:
Barclays - Couldn't even get through to a business banker. Went through various call centres who put me through to a couple of irrelevant voice mails. Tried 4 times, got through to voicemail twice. Total success rate 0%
Lloyds/TSB - Got through to a business banker quite quickly and set up a meeting. Went to the meeting and felt like I was being eyed up suspiciously by the business banking manager. He is now thinking about it but he freaked me out a bit. Success rate TBC%
Abbey - Got through (eventually) but told me they do not cater for business accounts required this type of funding (£20K). Success rate 0%
HSBC - Got through to an assistant commercial banking manager who seemed to be very self important and not very interested in my business at all. Agreed to see my business plan before setting up a meeting and will call me tomorrow. This is where I bank at the moment so it all seems a bit strange as they know me already. We shall see what happens. Success rate TBC%.
By this time I was thouroughly hacked off so I am now going down the pub to watch England and have a few jars.
Thanks for listening. I feel a lot better now.
Clem.