louises started this topic @ 12:07 on 08/11/2006
I am researching how small businesses keep their books. How many of you keep manual records? Do you use a specific book keeping book like Simplex? Do you use a software package? Which one? Please can as many of you who read this reply to help me formulate a new start up workshop? Thanks.
RE: Book Keeping
James Smith | 08/11/2006 01:45 PM
Its going to depend who the people are that you are trying to attract to your seminar.
The small 'PC savy' business will tend to use an excel spreadsheet as its easy! The trades will tend not to use anything other than a carrier bag or on a good day a lever arch file for their receipts. From my clients I have a handful use manual accounting (which i try and get them off ASAP as they are normally riddled with errors) most of the larger businesses use Quickbooks, SAGE (which I personally try to discourage as I think its a lot harder to use than QB) or MYOB.
I have the odd client on some of the 100's of lesser known brands (never heard of simplex myself) but again I try to wean them off them as they are a pain to support.
hope this helps.
Regards,
------------------------
James Smith
Chartered Accountant
www.jamesesmith.co.uk
01235 536 773
---------------------------
Your indispensable guide to Small Business Bookkeeping, Self-Assessment & VAT
RE: RE: Book Keeping
BrettUK | 08/11/2006 02:32 PM
louises,
With my business I currently use SAGE but only for invoicing and nothing else. I find SAGE is not that great so I am in the process of moving to Instant Invoice. As for my book keeping most of my records are paper that I file for my accountant and they enter it onto the system they use.
For me this is the easiest and most efficient way to run the business.
If you are looking for an invoicing package try Instant Invoice it’s a very simple and to the point package. (Just to let you know I am not affiliated with the company just very impressed with the product)
Hope this helps.
Brett
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RE: RE: Book Keeping
James Smith | 09/11/2006 08:50 AM
I think it’s really a question of what version you are using (ie how old is this version?), how you have set it up and your accounting knowledge.
If you hate it you probably (a ) have it badly set up and (b) don’t really understand what you are doing. I can’t think for the life of me why you would use it for invoicing and then pass over a pile of paperwork for your accountant to key in manually into another package. Seems a very tortuous process. Have you discussed with them about setting up something more practical longer term? I would not really feel comfortable with such a system as its probably a big waste of time all round and would probably result in an whacking great big fee from your accountant which is probably entreily avoidable with a bit of training and set up work on SAGE or another package (or even excel!) Its not as if you have a very complicated business accounting wise.
I should point out I am really not a SAGE fan as it takes a lot longer to explain it to clients than QB!
------------------------
James Smith
Chartered Accountant
www.jamesesmith.co.uk
01235 536 773
---------------------------
Your indispensable guide to Small Business Bookkeeping, Self-Assessment & VAT
RE: RE: Book Keeping
BrettUK | 09/11/2006 09:06 AM
James,
The version I was running was Sage Line 50 V 11. As for the big bill my wife and her family are accountants so I think I will be ok there. 
Sage seems over complicated for what I need. One of the worst parts about it is the report designer. Also why does Sage feel the need to charge for a monthly subscription, what’s that all about (ok lets not turn this in to a we hate Sage post) but as they lead the market in accounting software they seem to think they can charge extortionate prices with over complicated software, this is my opinion from a small business point of view
My wife has a system they use in the family business, I am not sure what it is but I can assure you it’s not SAGE
Brett
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RE: RE: Book Keeping
BrettUK | 09/11/2006 03:28 PM
Andrew,
Cost is the biggest thing that puts small businesses of, even the small business version Sage line 50 is too much and I think over complicated for what is needed. As for the large corporations then yes Sage maybe the better option but for a smaller business I would stay away from Sage.
James in regards to your point I was using Sage on a trial basis and after I found a few issues that I needed to help me run the business I phoned the support line and was told I need to pay for the support even thought its a trial. (The amount the software costs you think some support could be included, even for a general how to question) after that I decided to change applications.
Brett
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RE: Book Keeping
James Smith | 09/11/2006 03:55 PM
Much as I don’t much like SAGE, I think you are being rather unfair here and giving the wrong impression. For whatever reason it appears that you basically bought the wrong product – Line 50 is a serious bit of kit suitable for a much larger business. It’s something you may think about when you have (say) 20+ employees or a complex accounting environment. I’ve used it myself to run a business doing £1million a month t/o. It’s really not something you would throw at a micro business doing their own books, especially in the service sector. It needs some serious setting up for one.
The entry level products are around £100 would have been far more suitable if not a simple excel sheet.
Regards,
------------------------
James Smith
Chartered Accountant
www.jamesesmith.co.uk
01235 536 773
---------------------------
Your indispensable guide to Small Business Bookkeeping, Self-Assessment & VAT
RE: RE: Book Keeping
BrettUK | 09/11/2006 04:26 PM
James
After using it I agree, its way over the top for what I currently need so why did Sage not tell me this?, again it comes down to poor customer service and lets sting the customer for as much as possible. I did not want to have to bring this out in the open but that’s how it made me feel.
I do not want to turn this thread into a "I hate Sage" I have made my feelings known so I think it will leave it there.
Brett
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RE: RE: Book Keeping
sykesdev | 09/11/2006 06:52 PM
Brett,
This should be a lesson to anyone involved in sales.
Unhappy customers quite rightly make their views known.
For a whole different business model in accounting software, why not take a look at some of the open source options.
There are quite a few, two popular ones are
GnuCash: Designed for use with linux, but being successfully run on windows
WebSite: http://www.gnucash.org/
Windows Instructions: http://wiki.gnucash.org/wiki/Windows
SqlLedger: This is a web based setup, but of course you could run it inside an intranet if you're big enough, their site includes an online demo.
WebSite: http://www.sql-ledger.org/
There are loads of others to choose from too.
The difference here is that being non-proprietary software, there's no overpriced support line manned by a spotty youth reading a script, instead you need to familiarise yourself with the wealth of knowledge being generated by the community of users.
For those who like swearing down the phone at someone, then opensource is probably not for you, but if the budget comes first, who can afford to not at least consider a freebie!
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Andrew.
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RE: RE: Book Keeping
has anyone tried http://www.turbocashuk.com/ as I was looking at alternatives to sage awhile back, because i needed computerised accounting experience, but still need to use sage as that is what everyone is after but yeah i ain't a clue how to use it as i haven't had the chance. 